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Old 04-25-2014, 10:19 PM
 
Location: Valley of the Sun
201 posts, read 610,270 times
Reputation: 242

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Quote:
Originally Posted by phx1205 View Post
I don't have any experience in solar, so I can't answer your questions, but did you look at your HOA CC&Rs to see what restrictions they might place on solar panels?
I believe this was a case that went to the Arizona Supreme Court. The HOA's lost.
Here's the law resulting from that decision. Format Document
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Old 04-26-2014, 12:12 AM
 
3,819 posts, read 11,918,206 times
Reputation: 2747
Got some great information from a local guy on another forum on his 10.71 kW system that he purchased about a year ago.
After seeing his numbers, the lease route really doesn't make sense, at all.


Total cost: $32,130
- Down Payment: $4k
- SRP Rebate: $1.5k
- 30% Fed Tax Cred: $9639
- State Tax Cred: $1k
Net Cost: $15,991

The way they work out the financing is: You get two loans, one 1-year same-as-cash loan to float the Fed Tax rebate. So I got a 1-year SAC for ~$10k, which I got back on my federal taxes, which I repaid that loan with.
The 2nd is 12-years @ 2.99% for the $15,991, which works out to around $130/month or so.


So the whole system cost was $32,000...with the lease payments I was quoted, it would end up being $42,000 ($175/month X 20 years) and I wouldn't even own the system at the end! The guy's monthly payments are $130, though he did put $4,000 down up front but even if you rolled that into the payment it would be $165/month and you're done with payments after 12 years forever, not 20 years at which point you have to re-lease or give the system back.

Am I missing something here? Seems too good.
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Old 04-26-2014, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Hard aground in the Sonoran Desert
4,866 posts, read 11,192,444 times
Reputation: 7123
Only thing missing is that you are on the hook for maintenance and repairs if you are not leasing. Are you still guaranteed a monthly output for 20 years if you buy it outright?
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Old 04-26-2014, 10:11 AM
509
 
6,323 posts, read 6,997,335 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bummer View Post
Very interesting concept, 509 . . .

I agree wholeheartedly that serious conservation goes a long way, however, unless batteries and propane are free it sounds like you are saving on one utility and spending on another, not to mention the procurement expense. Besides, propane used indoors can be dangerous and, in many cases, stinks.

My Electric Bill runs about 50 bucks a month except for July and August when it jumps to about 80 bucks. I definitely don't waste electricity but I also do not want to live in the dark and/or be uncomfortable. I've converted to LED bulbs and researched / purchased "energy efficient" appliances whenever possible.

I have also researched solar panels and in my particular case . . . just not financially practical.
Sorry, I should have been clearer. We are off-grid, because there is NO option for on-grid!!! Never give up you connection to the grid!!! So we were forced into an off-grid system.

Solar is "just not financially practical" in eastern Washington. It is in Calfornia and Hawaii. Arizona I would focus on conservation rather than solar. You can do a lot to reduce energy usage without ANY impact on quality of life.

Look into the concept of "right choices" for energy. There is stuff only electricity can do and stuff (particularly heating) that is much better done with natural gas or propane. Propane is fine. Just get the direct vent appliances and do put in CO detectors into the house. In almost all cases, outside of central Washington propane and natural gas is much cheaper to heat with than electricity.

Our all electric house grid house in the dead of winter is $100/month for heating and lights. In California, that same bill would be over 2000 dollars/month, and we estimated about 500-600 dollars/month in Arizona.

I understand your concern about "live in the dark and /or be uncomfortable". Our off-grid house is a business. We run it as a vacation rental. It has a 1.5KW solar panel system.

Your welcome to come and stay in our vacation home. "Dark and uncomfortable" is not a good setting for a vacation rental home!!! It is very comfortable. Some guests do not even realize that we are off-grid.

Our average nightly rental is $250/night. At those prices nobody wants dark and uncomfortable. Conservation means efficient use of resources and in many cases that makes the setting more inviting rather than less. Good design is important. Lots of people waste energy just because they are too lazy to do good home design.

Hope this helps.
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Old 04-26-2014, 10:34 AM
 
3,819 posts, read 11,918,206 times
Reputation: 2747
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBTRS View Post
Only thing missing is that you are on the hook for maintenance and repairs if you are not leasing. Are you still guaranteed a monthly output for 20 years if you buy it outright?
I asked him so I'll let you know what he says about the guaranteed output. He did say the inverters have a 10 year warranty and the panels a 25 year warranty so you are not on the hook for repairs...possibly maintenance but what kind of maintenance do these normally require?
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Old 04-26-2014, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Valley of the Sun
2,618 posts, read 2,318,880 times
Reputation: 2823
So can anyone with APS and solar city tell me why my solar produced credit from APS was around 800 kWh but my solar city account said the system produced 1000 kWh for the same time period as the bill?

I sent them a message but I wondered if there is something I should be asking them about when I hear back.
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Old 04-26-2014, 01:24 PM
 
3,819 posts, read 11,918,206 times
Reputation: 2747
Did you use some of the power (200 kWh) and the net was 800?
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Old 04-26-2014, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Valley of the Sun
2,618 posts, read 2,318,880 times
Reputation: 2823
Quote:
Originally Posted by HX_Guy View Post
Did you use some of the power (200 kWh) and the net was 800?
Not that I can tell. It looks like they just read the solar box from previous month's number recorded to new number, subtract the new number from the previous months number, which gives total kWh generated by system in that given time frame.
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Old 04-26-2014, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,515 posts, read 3,674,029 times
Reputation: 6403
Quote:
Originally Posted by phx1205 View Post
I don't have any experience in solar, so I can't answer your questions, but did you look at your HOA CC&Rs to see what restrictions they might place on solar panels?
HOA's have nothing to say about installing rooftop solar in Arizona. They can request that you utilize a darker type of panel or that you install them a certain way but it is of course, only a request.
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Old 04-26-2014, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,515 posts, read 3,674,029 times
Reputation: 6403
Quote:
Originally Posted by lewdog_5 View Post
So can anyone with APS and solar city tell me why my solar produced credit from APS was around 800 kWh but my solar city account said the system produced 1000 kWh for the same time period as the bill?

I sent them a message but I wondered if there is something I should be asking them about when I hear back.
Monitoring systems can be notoriously fickle, mine has had quite a few issues. In this matter, what SolarCity claims is irrelevant, what APS counts as going into the grid is all that matters.
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