Redflex Speeding Ticket

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by Tulip12

I got a photo radar in Paradise Valley. Does anyone know if they are using the alternative serve method? Has anyone been served for a ticket in Paradise Valley? In the past, I have ignored the ticket and never been served.

To my knowledge, Scottsdale is the only Valley city that has "alternative serve"

[mzbk2l]

What's "alternative serve?" Does it comply with the Arizona Rules of Civil Procedure?

Here's the text of a post I made in a similar thread a few days ago...

Keep in mind that in AZ, you're not considered "properly served" simply because you receive a notice by US Mail. Had you chosen to ignore the ticket, and Mesa had not invested in a process server to track you down in CA, your ticket would have been dismissed.

Here's a link with a little more info on that subject:
Arizona State Appeals Court's Red Light Camera Decision

The requirements for service under Rule 4.1(c) are clear. A summons and complaint may be served by first-class mail along with two copies of a notice and acknowledgment of receipt of summons and complaint and a postage-paid return envelope, but service is not complete until the acknowledgment of receipt is executed. Ariz.R.Civ.P. 4.1(c)(1), (2). If the acknowledgment of receipt is not executed, service is not complete under this method even if there is evidence that the summons and complaint were received. See Worrell v. B.F. Goodrich Co., 845 F.2d 840, 841-42 (9th Cir.1988), cert. denied, 491 U.S. 907, 109 S.Ct. 3191, 105 L.Ed.2d 699 (1989). Until service is complete, no personal jurisdiction is obtained, and any judgment entered is void. Endischee v. Endischee, 141 Ariz. 77, 79, 685 P.2d 142, 144 (App.1984); Kadota v. Hosogai, 125 Ariz. 131, 134, 608 P.2d 68, 71 (App.1980).

The appellant's recourse when a defendant fails to execute the acknowledgement of receipt is to continue the hearing and serve the complaint by some other authorized method. See Ariz.R.Civ.P. 4.1(c)(3). Until the magistrate's court obtains personal jurisdiction, it has no power to enter an order of civil sanction against a defendant. See Endischee, 141 Ariz. at 79, 685 P.2d at 144; Kadota, 125 Ariz. at 134, 608 P.2d at 71.

As a matter of routine, I've always ignored them, never been served, and never had anything appear on any record (driving or otherwise). It's not a loophole, it's the law.

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by mzbk2l

What's "alternative serve?" Does it comply with the Arizona Rules of Civil Procedure?

Here's the text of a post I made in a similar thread a few days ago...

Keep in mind that in AZ, you're not considered "properly served" simply because you receive a notice by US Mail. Had you chosen to ignore the ticket, and Mesa had not invested in a process server to track you down in CA, your ticket would have been dismissed.

Here's a link with a little more info on that subject:
Arizona State Appeals Court's Red Light Camera Decision



As a matter of routine, I've always ignored them, never been served, and never had anything appear on any record (driving or otherwise). It's not a loophole, it's the law.

You've obviously never been to a court in Arizona. The law is completely irrelevant unless you've got a high-dollar lawyer with you - which, incidentally, will cost more than the ticket.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by mzbk2l

What's "alternative serve?" Does it comply with the Arizona Rules of Civil Procedure?

Here's the text of a post I made in a similar thread a few days ago...

Keep in mind that in AZ, you're not considered "properly served" simply because you receive a notice by US Mail. Had you chosen to ignore the ticket, and Mesa had not invested in a process server to track you down in CA, your ticket would have been dismissed.

Here's a link with a little more info on that subject:
Arizona State Appeals Court's Red Light Camera Decision



As a matter of routine, I've always ignored them, never been served, and never had anything appear on any record (driving or otherwise). It's not a loophole, it's the law.

Why don't you get a ticket in Scottsdale, ignore it and then tell a judge what you told me. See what happens then

[fennec2009]

https://govt.westlaw.com/azrules/Doc...8sc.Default%29

16 A.R.S. Rules of Civil Procedure Rule 4.1(k) Alternative or Substituted Service. If service by one of the means set forth in the preceding paragraphs of this Rule 4.1 proves impracticable, then service may be accomplished in such manner, other than by publication, as the court, upon motion and without notice, may direct. Whenever the court allows an alternate or substitute form of service pursuant to this subpart, reasonable efforts shall be undertaken by the party making service to assure that actual notice of the commencement of the action is provided to the person to be served and, in any event, the summons and the pleading to be served, as well as any order of the court authorizing an alternative method of service, shall be mailed to the last known business or residence address of the person to be served. Service by publication may be employed only under the circumstances, and in accordance with the procedures, specified in Rules 4.1(l), 4.1(m), 4.2(f) and 4.2(g) of these Rules.

[mzbk2l]

Originally Posted by Zippyman

You've obviously never been to a court in Arizona. The law is completely irrelevant unless you've got a high-dollar lawyer with you - which, incidentally, will cost more than the ticket.

I've had photo radar tickets, but never had to go to court because I was never served. Where does the high-dollar lawyer come into play in this?

No proper service = no hearing = no case and no record.

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

Why don't you get a ticket in Scottsdale, ignore it and then tell a judge what you told me. See what happens then

I think it's possible I was snapped once in North Scottsdale near the airpark years ago (2000-2002 timeframe), but I either never received a summons or don't remember it. In any case, I've never paid or responded to a photo radar summons and have no record of any of the tickets on my AZ driver's license history.

Originally Posted by fennec2009

https://govt.westlaw.com/azrules/Doc...8sc.Default%29

Thanks, fennec2009. I wasn't aware of that process, so it's certainly something to keep in mind.

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by mzbk2l

I've had photo radar tickets, but never had to go to court because I was never served. Where does the high-dollar lawyer come into play in this?

No proper service = no hearing = no case and no record.


I think it's possible I was snapped once in North Scottsdale near the airpark years ago (2000-2002 timeframe), but I either never received a summons or don't remember it. In any case, I've never paid or responded to a photo radar summons and have no record of any of the tickets on my AZ driver's license history.


Thanks, fennec2009. I wasn't aware of that process, so it's certainly something to keep in mind.

If they do "alternate service" on you- there is a "case" - which you won't appear for and a "record" of a judgement against you, followed shortly thereafter with a license suspension for not paying your robo-ticket. Then, when you get pulled over for anything (by any other law-enforcement agency) - you get a ride in a police car & a chance to hire that high-dollar lawyer to clear your name & your license. Not saying I agree with alternate service, but it is what it is.