Why does Phoenix Suck? (Tucson, Flagstaff: city hall, buy, theatre)

[azriverfan.]

I can't fathom how someone could have moved here and then suddenly become shocked by Phoenix. How could you not know these things in advance.

For some of these people who rant about Phoenix, how did you end up here in the first place. Were you taken hostage and held captive in some home in Gilbert? The things they criticize and like just astonishes me how they ended up here in the first place. That would be like me moving to Boston and then complaining about snow, too much seafood and rude people. Really, I didn't know that in advance?

Here is the other thing, why is it that if you go to New York, their residents are allowed to have pride in their city. If you rip on New York, a New Yorker will call you out. No one will claim that person was being rude. They will just say, they were defeinding their home. Yet in Phoenix, if a resident defends it in the same manner, we are suddenly rude??? It's a double standard.

People really feel that because this is Phoenix, they can openly walk around and trash the city and the people are supposed to be okay with that. And if they aren't okay with that then they are just rude and having an inferiority complex to L.A. The problem is with you. If you can't tolerate criticism in return then move. If I criticized someone's home while I was there, I would have enough honor to accept whatever criticism I received in return. It comes with the territory. But the Phoenix-sucks crowd are too weak minded to accept that type of backlash.

Sorry but for many of us this is our home and we love it here. Forgive us if we don't just don't allow you to trash it as easily as you would like.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by Catavenger

I'm just curious over the years I have heard people pushing for a downtown.
Why do we NEED a downtown? Do we need it just because other cities have one? What's the point?
Phoenix as has been noted is very spread out. Are we supposed to use gas just to meet downtown? Wouldn't it make more sense to meet in our own neighborhoods rather than driving down there?

Because of the centralized location. Seriously, how many people in the central or east Valley want to drive way over to Glendale to see a pro football or hockey game, or a concert, when they could drive (or better yet, take the LIGHT RAIL) less of a distance to downtown and have a better experience? There are some cases when going downtown doesn't make sense, such as basic errands like grocery shopping. But for a real city experience (concerts, museums, sports, and a large amount of employment), that's why downtown is needed. Those like you who dislike downtown so much have every right to stay away ... nobody is forcing you to do anything against your will.

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

I can't fathom how someone could have moved here and then suddenly become shocked by Phoenix. How could you not know these things in advance.

For some of these people who rant about Phoenix, how did you end up here in the first place. Were you taken hostage and held captive in some home in Gilbert? The things they criticize and like just astonishes me how they ended up here in the first place. That would be like me moving to Boston and then complaining about snow, too much seafood and rude people. Really, I didn't know that in advance?

Phoenix as a city doesn't really suck ... except during the summer when the blast furnace heat seems to be never ending. What sucks is the type of people who move here: usually it's the ones who are sick of the cold, and move here strictly for the weather/climate (which to me is a silly reason in itself), but then complain about practically everything else. Most of them contribute little or nothing to the city or the metro area. All they do is roast in the sun and brag about the weather, but at the same time wish they were back home or elsewhere. If all they enjoy here is the weather but dislike everything else, why the hell do they move here (and stay here)?!

[leavingIL]

lol this whole thread got pretty contentious...

but i'll be honest... nobody's really discouraged me yet!

[AlohaFriday]

In many cities, people are capable of having intellectual discussions about how things could improve. Here if you want to talk about how things might get better, you're told to appreciate the sunshine, or that you're weak-minded or lazy. It's laughable that a city this large is so incapable of dissecting local issues. Our civic conversation is incredibly shallow, this thread included, and is not helped by our poor media that would rather report on sports than important local issues.

Sometimes people really do end up places. Not everyone moved here specifically to avoid cold winters. Life gets crazy, you end up places you never imagined living and you try to make the best of it.

This thread proves my main issue with Phoenix, and one that does not become apparent until living here quite some time. It's a shallow, vapid city without the desire to improve itself. It's content with the status quo and if you dare offer critique, you're immediately chastised.

[Kimballette]

Originally Posted by AlohaFriday

It's a shallow, vapid city without the desire to improve itself. It's content with the status quo and if you dare offer critique, you're immediately chastised.

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

Here is the other thing, why is it that if you go to New York, their residents are allowed to have pride in their city. If you rip on New York, a New Yorker will call you out. No one will claim that person was being rude. They will just say, they were defeinding their home. Yet in Phoenix, if a resident defends it in the same manner, we are suddenly rude??? It's a double standard.

Or say we're shallow and vapid.

[AlohaFriday]

Also, not sure if you've ever been to New York, but East Coasters in general are pretty negative and will gladly rip on anything. That's why those cities are able to effect change. People talk about issues and work to improve them. Here, many come to escape the cold and relax in the sunshine.

Cities let developers with no interest in the general welfare make all decisions and there's no tax dollars to even support an appropriate number of police officers. Phoenix PD hasn't hired an officer in 6 years and there's serious manpower shortfalls. In many large cities, people would be up in arms about that and making a stink. Here? Nobody cares.

That's why people say there's no community. Nobody cares about the issues that affect us all.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by AlohaFriday

In many cities, people are capable of having intellectual discussions about how things could improve. Here if you want to talk about how things might get better, you're told to appreciate the sunshine, or that you're weak-minded or lazy.

It does seem that way to a certain point. For natives like me and many long term residents, the constant sunshine does get very monotonous, and I often cite that as one of the things I dislike about Phoenix ... or at least one thing I'm tired of. The problem is that this city (and especially the metro area as a whole) is made up largely of transplants who moved here specifically for the sun & warm weather, but little else. You'll find a few of them here on these forums ... and they are quick to criticize those who tire of the same kind of sunny weather all the time. My reply to them is they are new here, and they will likely become tired of the constant sun & heat if they stay here long enough. Besides, it's difficult to appreciate the sunshine when we have been faced with rainfall deficits and a lingering drought!

[AlohaFriday]

Azriverfan, I'm not sure how it's ok to call someone weak-minded for having an opinion. You moved the discussion seamlessly from discussing a place to personal attacks.

Here's essentially what's happening: Person A. I don't like x, y and z. Person B. Well you're just stupid and never should have moved here!

Do you see how silly that is?

There are better ways to defend your beloved city than putting others down. I was offering valid critiques of Phoenix. The city will never grow into itself if it doesn't look itself squarely in the eye and ask how it can best grow into itself.

Anyway, didn't you say you no longer live here? And I do. So that actually gives me every right to say whatever I want about this city. If you love it so much, why did you leave?

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Phoenix as a city doesn't really suck ... except during the summer when the blast furnace heat seems to be never ending. What sucks is the type of people who move here: usually it's the ones who are sick of the cold, and move here strictly for the weather/climate (which to me is a silly reason in itself), but then complain about practically everything else. Most of them contribute little or nothing to the city or the metro area. All they do is roast in the sun and brag about the weather, but at the same time wish they were back home or elsewhere. If all they enjoy here is the weather but dislike everything else, why the hell do they move here (and stay here)?!

I agree. Give me less growth in exchange for quality of growth. I too tire of the "I moved here for the better weather but now I can't get a job" crowd. We needed educated productive people who add to our economy not a bunch of 20 somethings who move here and then realize its not like living in downtown San Francisco.

Eliminate the state income tax and raise sales tax. The dependent crowd will leave and innovative educated people will move here with the intent that they can save more of their high income.

[Catavenger]

The light rail is a joke - now that is a reason why Phoenix sucks