Relocating from Maine to AZ (Phoenix, Tucson: housing, rent, hotel)

[a1m1700]

AZbound what part of Az are you moving to? I've been here for 20 years from NY. I loved it fo so long and I still am very fond of it. It has changed though. I live in Gilbert and that I would consider a nice town with probably the best school district in the state. You said you finalized your building plans in November we are also building just down the road from where we live now. I have to tell you the housing market has turned. Call your builder and ask what incentives they are giving now. You want to make sure you do not over pay. I know my builder has has not lowered the price but they are playing games internally giving higher incentives and buying peoples mortages down for 3 years. Since you have already visited here you know it does not resemble the east coast in any shape or fashion. That's what I liked about it to begin with. I'm a little undecided on what to do. I won't overpay for my new build and I'm thinking about a move to NC but I don't like tornados and I think they get too many. Our weather is not bad just an occasional monsoon.

[Azbound]

We're headed out to Peoria. Our builder did lower the price of our home!

[a1m1700]

I used to live in Peoria. Nice people up there. I lived there when my kids were in Elementary school. My best friends live up that way I'm there almost every weekend. Peoria schools are very good. I'm glad your builder lowered your price. Whose your builder? My husband works for Engle homes.

[kendracalled]

In arizona, if you have the day off, you have the Whole day off. You get up early(6-7) to cut your grass, do chores whatever. Then you can play. The first sat. I had a house there, I was mad about getting woke up to early by lawn mowers. Sun morning I was up early after almost killing my self sat afternoon, trying to work in the yard.
It is a beautiful place, and I hated to move.

[Azbound]

Shea Homes is our Builder

[a1m1700]

I like Shea homes. Very good reputation. I'm not surprised they lowered your price. I wish you the best of luck in your new home!!

[Azbound]

We've been very pleased with Shea, its important to us that their reputation is so stellar. Its hard building a home in AZ when living in Maine! They have been great communicators and extremely helpful!

[steve22]

[moderator CUT] To those looking to relocate to PHX, I would like to first of all make one thing clear: Scottsdale is not Phoenix. Scottsdale's a suburb, populated mostly by snobby yuppies posing as SUV and exotic car-driving wanna-be scenesters. In short, Scottsdale wants to be O.C., or worse, Beverly Hills. It's really sad, and not a place I enjoy much at all.

But this really typifies Phoenix's identity: a bunch of suburbs, sprawled out for miles in every direction, each fairly homogenous in their makeup and not very well integrated with each other. Scottsdale: see above. Tempe: generic college town. Mesa & Chandler: Expansive generic super-burbs, populated mostly by families. Lots of crime in both places. Sun City: generic retirement community. You get the point.

A second thing I would like to clarify: Phoenix is not- I repeat NOT- in any way, shape, or form, a nice or safe place to live.

Crime rate: 3rd worst in the country overall among major cities, only Tucson and Memphis are worse. Check Sperling's site, they have the statistics.

Traffic: awful. The unchecked sprawl that has turned the desert into a neverending expanse of concrete parking lots and cookie-cutout neighborhoods with big-box strip malls has also eroded the downtown population of most of its educated workforce, while crippling the freeways with traffic during most times of the day.

Schools: Terrible, again. Arizona's public schools are rated overall 48th out of 5o states, according to one study. Arizona has the highest high school dropout rate in the country. Public school funding here is disastrous, and it's well-documented. Every day, the AZ Republic seems to have yet another story about the sad state of school funding woes here. It's also the 3rd worst major city in the country in which to raise kids, just edging out Cleveland and Detroit, according to another study. Here's a link, hope it works:
http://www.azcentral.com/families/ar...ndly14-ON.html

Keep in mind that 30 years ago, Phoenix had less than a million residents; the huge population explosion in this area happened during a time when it was the trendy thing across the country to move out to the suburbs, not to the city. As a result, during the past few decades, the Valley's suburban communities have grown expansively (Mesa alone boasts a population bigger than Pittsburgh or Cincinnati), while the downtown area has failed to grow with it. The result is something resembling a donut hole. Downtown Phoenix is the worst, most culturally devoid and boring downtown of any major city in the country- not to mention very dangerous in the neighborhoods which do exist in & near the core of the city. I've been here 3 years, and still am not sure why this city continues to grow the way that it does. Summer's awful, & lasts for 5 months. Winter's nice, but lately the smog has made breathing in the winter months very unpleasant. It's obviously not a sustainablecommunity in the long run, & very poorly planned- where's the water going to come from? In an environment where human beings literally would not be able to exist without air conditioning and cars, who's going to be able to live here in another 10 years when gas is $6 a gallon, the freeways gridlock to a standstill daily due to increased numbers of commuters thanks to unchecked sprawl, and energy costs are exorbitant? Here's what happens: millions leave in a mass exodus. This place is another dust bowl waiting to happen. I'm just glad I won't be here when it does. I'm outta here in a year, off to a smaller, more traditional city in cooler climes, and frankly can't wait.

[CUT]

[SpeedyAZ]

A second thing I would like to clarify: Phoenix is not- I repeat NOT- in any way, shape, or form, a nice or safe place to live.

That's your opinion, many others seem to enjoy it here. Opinions are not facts and never will be, I think Phoenix is one of the best places to live in the US but again, is an opinion.

Crime is rampant in the poorer areas of the greater Phoenix area such as Mesa and some other places in the Valley. I live in Grayhawk and in my area there is little crime at all.

Traffic is bad, I have already admitted that. Traffic is very slow during rush hours (6-9 in the morning and 4-7 at night). Traffic doesn't bother me, different strokes for different folks.

I have no kids in school so the AZ public school system is also no worry of mine. There are many private schools down here that rank high in test scores and overall teacher/ student ratio etc.

Phoenix doesn't have much of a downtown like other cities but I guess you can't have everything. This is NOT New York City with a vibrant downtown area, it's mainly office buildings and businesses.

And I would also like to clear up that Scottsdale is not for just wealthy people. I don't consider myself wealthy but comfortable. Many people in this area made their money when home values shot through the roof. Just because you don't like Scottsdale doesn't mean others don't. I'm glad that I bought when I did otherwise I wouldn't be living here!

And I don't drive a Beemer...I drive a Porsche (and no I'm not being sarcastic).

[steve22]

Opinions notwithstanding, statistics are based on numbers, and numbers are concrete facts. So when you see that metro Phoenix has the 3rd-highest number of reported felonious crimes per year, and leads the country in number of reported larcenies, those stats aren't the byproduct of my opinion or anyone else's. Those are facts, and not good ones. Another fact: Maricopa County received the American Lung Association’s lowest grade for air quality in both ozone and particulates in 2005. According to the association's "State of the Air 2005" report, over 2.6 million, or 79%, of the county's residents are at high risk for respiratory complications due to air quality.

Here's another number I'll throw at you: 3%. That's roughly the percentage of Maricopa County's workforce that's located in downtown Phoenix, the lowest concentration of any major city in the country. Pa-thetic. In fact, it was just announced that Deloitte and Touche are relocating to Tempe and taking 800 jobs out of downtown with them. Gee, I wonder why downtown continues to be a boring wasteland composed of a few office buildings and dilapidated neighborhoods despite the supposedly ongoing efforts to improve it. Partly because of the weather, partly because of the air, and partly because of its decentralization, it’s probably the least walkable city in the country with the possible exception of L.A.

Getting back to the crime topic, there was a very relevant article in the AZ Republic yesterday exposing Phoenix's skyrocketing gang problem. This wasn't really news to me, and I suppose that some of my cynical attitude comes from the fact that because of my job, I'm probably more hyperacutely aware of some of the problems this community faces than most. But I can tell you that I moved here from Detroit, and I never saw ANYTHING there on a daily basis that's as bad as what goes on here. Trust me, if you get your info by watching the news and reading the paper, you're only hearing about a very small fraction of what really goes on here. It would probably be easy to think that the crime problem is isolated and involves a few bad individuals doing things to other bad people in parts of town that are far away from you; trust me, that isn't the case. It's a whole lot worse than you could imagine. I'm talking about innocent people, minding their own business, victimized ruthlessly on a daily basis- in supposedly "good" parts of town. That’s the stuff you usually don’t hear about that’s the most disturbing, and it happens here with alarming frequency., more so than I ever saw in Detroit. Criminals have figured out that it doesn’t do them any good to commit crimes against people in poor neighborhoods; they don’t have anything that’s worth money. Which explains why there’s been a huge spike in crime over the last few years in places like Scottsdale and Sun City, as gangs branch out into more affluent areas. Citing statistics again, the number of larcenies reported in Scottsdale has risen sharply in the past year. So if you think you’re safe because you don’t live in central Phoenix or Glendale, you’re delusional.

And honestly, if you have enough money and don’t want to live in the center of the city, it doesn’t matter what metropolitan area you live in. You can sequester yourself in an affluent suburb, look at the great scenery, the beautiful architecture, and live under the naive assumption of safety and isolation from the “bad” people in the “bad” areas. Considering that you live in Grayhawk and drive a Porsche, I’d conjecture that you’re isolated from the realities of this community and the problems it faces. Your opinion is therefore biased in the positive sense. I’m sure that you enjoy a relatively high quality of life and I’m not surprised that you think it’s great here. But I would also argue that, given your resources, your experience would be similar anywhere else. It would be easy to live in Birmingham, MI, for example, enjoy a pretty plush lifestyle, and think that Detroit’s a pretty nice place. But you’d be wrong. Birmingham isn’t Detroit. And once again, I’ll emphasize that Scottsdale isn’t Phoenix. You’re comparing apples to oranges. To me, what defines a great city is its core, its downtown area. If it’s vibrant, safe, culturally diverse, walkable, has distinct and interesting neighborhoods, is the employment center of the community, and is full of diverse entertainment options- which is the case in classic cities like Chicago, Seattle, San Francisco, Portland, Boston, Denver, etc.- those are the things that make city life attractive, and why I would want to live in those cities. And those attractive aspects of what makes a great city, Phoenix lacks completely.