East Coast cities vs. Suburban Sprawl (Phoenix, Glendale: college, living in, military)

[blisterpeanuts]

I thought the heat island effect was mainly due to pavement. I hope they hurry up and replace it all with that cool pavement.

[cevett]

Originally Posted by Patrick754

You should do a little research and educate yourself before ranting about sprawl. Philadelphia is a worse offender than Phoenix.

USA Urbanized Areas: 2000 Ranked by Population(465 Areas)

No where is a worse offender than Phoenix... That's not possible when Phoenix' metro area covers 14,000 miles and Philadelphia covers a barely over 4,000 miles with nearly twice as many people.

The area over here is well established, there is no room for sprawl. The near by cities and counties have their own history and identity. They don't lump all together to try and make demographic statements that only work with people who don't experience both ways of life.

The every day life in the most densely populated parts of Phoenix feel suburban compared to the least densely populated areas of south jersey or philly.. Not to mention north jersey and NYC.

Like I said, draw the same size circle over here that you call "PHOENIX" and you will dwarf your city. Our state dwarfs yours..

Even NJ is much more populated than AZ and has and is about 1/30 the size of AZ.

If you can imagine that culture shock.. Try adding 2 million people to AZ and shrinking the state to 1/30 the size and tell me AZ feels anywhere close to as largely populated as this part of the country.

We have areas of NJ that have 45,000 per square mile. You are about 7,000 per square mile. BIG DIFFERENCE.

This area is far more walkable, has way better transportation and jobs within a 20 mile radius, much MUCH higher salaries, architecturally more interesting and has a way bigger urban and exciting feel when compared to anywhere out west, much less the urban sprawl of Phoenix.

Simple as that.. That was my only point.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by cevett

No where is a worse offender than Phoenix...

Did you ever stop and think that maybe those who relocated to the Phoenix Metro area (actually made up of a number of independent cities), don't want to walk to urban centers or shopping or .... whatever??

[SOON2BNSURPRISE]

Cevett,

Just checked out the homes in Philadelphia area and most that I saw looked run down to me. Also there didn't seem to be any land with the homes. Looked like cheap apartments as far as I could tell. Just wanted to know if they have real houses in the area with front and back yards that are not connected to other homes. The prices looked good but then they seem kind of small. 1,000 square feet is good if you are single but I have a wife and kids. What is the new housing market like in Philadelphia? We want a new home with some land for under $200,000. Didn't see anything that I liked. Also there just seems to be too many people per square mile for me. Is there homes that are near open land in the area? Also I love mountains and hilsides. Are there any near by? How is the weather in the area? I prefer the a dry warm temp year round. Is it like that in the area?

[ArizonaBear]

Besides: some of us happen to like it here in the Southwest-------me included.

I am a Wash DC native so I know of what I speak of hating the climate (and many other aspects) of NoVa on north.

Moved this way in 1978 (age 20) and never looked back.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by Greatday

Did you ever stop and think that maybe those who relocated to the Phoenix Metro area (actually made up of a number of independent cities), don't want to walk to urban centers or shopping or .... whatever??

That's one of the problems: those who RELOCATED here. Too many of the transplants somehow thought this place would be their sunny, open spaced little escape from all their problems they left behind. It is they (not the natives) who have turned the Phoenix area into one huge sprawling, vehicle dependent suburb. It shouldn't be all about them. The natives and long term residents were here first ... and if we want more urbanized, walkable urban centers, then we should be heard just as much (if not more).

Other large cities also have "independent cities" included in their metropolitan areas as well, and a good share of them have thriving downtown areas & urban centers. Once a metro area becomes significant in terms of population (as Phoenix is now), there should be big city things besides just crime, gangs, pollution, and traffic. We've had those urban problems for years! I'd like to see more positive big city amenities offset those hassles of life: amusement parks, more Fortune 500 companies, higher wages, more 24 hour services, a taller downtown area, etc.

[steve22]

Originally Posted by Greatday

Did you ever stop and think that maybe those who relocated to the Phoenix Metro area (actually made up of a number of independent cities), don't want to walk to urban centers or shopping or .... whatever??

I have some bad news: the days of people being able to just rely on driving everywhere, i.e. the car-centric suburban lifestyle model as we know it, of which Phoenix is the poster child, isn't one that has much of a long-term future. It simply isn't sustainable forever. I could go into a huge discussion about this, but suffice it to say that it'd be a waste of time.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by steve22

I have some bad news: the days of people being able to just rely on driving everywhere, i.e. the car-centric suburban lifestyle model as we know it, of which Phoenix is the poster child, isn't one that has much of a long-term future. It simply isn't sustainable forever. I could go into a huge discussion about this, but suffice it to say that it'd be a waste of time.

Well - it is continuing to grow - and, you must also remember - Phx is not all "Phx" - it is Glendale - Peoria - Surprise - Mesa - Tempe - Gilbert - Phoenix - etc -

Each is a unique city - a unique government - it is not one city

We don't want the density the east coast cities have - we want "elbow room" - we want our pools, our backyards etc.

[rainrock]

Originally Posted by heatwaveaz

Philadelphia is a dump of city. New York is a real city. Philadelphia is old. Who cares if it has high rises if they are old, abandoned and ugly. There is absoutely nothing to do in Philadelphia and the nightlife and bar scene is better in the valley than the city of Philadelphia. I went to the best Philly had to offer and it paled in comparison to old town Scottsdale. Everyone in Philly wants to take the train to NYC because Philly's downtown is awful. Trust me, I will take some of the chain restaurants we have over the ghetto crack houses and shanty crime ridden holes you call restaurants in your city. The food is terrible there aside from the cheesesteaks. The bars are tiny. The women are pasty and fat. Philadelphia's downtown looks a lot smaller than San Franscisco, Seattle and Boston so it's hard to believe it has the third largest downtown. I can tell you for a fact that it doesn't look bigger than those cities and no one outside of Philadelphia would believe your downtown appears larger than SF, Boston and Seattle. And our suburbs are not like your suburbs. Our suburbs actually offer nice restaurants, shopping and recreational activities. And you can have the Liberty Bell, I'll take the Phoenician spa and resort. Our suburbs have companies. Your suburbs are nothing but tracks of houses with gas stations in between. You rely upon your downtown for everything. In cities like LA and Phoenix, we have a downtown but our suburbs are self containing as well.

I come in peace as I love to visit beautiful Phoenix but I dont believe the above diatribe does Philadlephia area justice.Heatwaveaz is a little out of the loop concerning the Philadelphia area and thats putting it mildly. There doesnt appear to be a single truthful statement in his synopsis, especially concerning bucolic suburban Philadelphia which has become the economic engine of the Philadlephia region, home to 12 fortune 500 companies and 3 of the wealthiest counties in the usa.(Chester,Montgomery,Bucks) . Center City Philly is home to another 10 Fortune 500 companies.

Philly suburbs-Tract housing and Gas stations? It certainly is not.


There is a vast amount of wealth in metro Philadlephia, and if I may, I will add that metro Philadelphia has more millionaires than any metro in the country behind NY,LA,Chi and SF.

I actually talked to the Phoenix mayor 3 or 4 years ago when he was here in Philly taking notes/brainstorming on how other cities operate. He couldnt say enough good things about Center City Philadlephia. He was amazed at the how vibrant and clean the downtown area was and stressed that his goal is to get downtown Phoenix moving in that direction.

Spruce Hill- West Philadephia








Chestnut Hill neighborhood of Philadelphia



Center City Philadelphia

[ArizonaBear]

Remember; to some of us (including myself) the lack of '4 seasons' is the trump card for Phx and other warm winter places

If a person is willing to deal with snow and ice; then there are plenty of options