East Coast cities vs. Suburban Sprawl (Phoenix, Scottsdale: construction, gated, taxi)

[Patrick754]

Originally Posted by irwin

Although it is changing, Phoenix at its heart a pretty conservative place full of retirees or persons close to retirement.

Actually Phoenix has a younger median age than Philadelphia. You should judge a place on facts, not tired stereotypes and assumptions.

[irwin]

Originally Posted by Patrick754

Actually Phoenix has a younger median age than Philadelphia. You should judge a place on facts, not tired stereotypes and assumptions.

Simply stating my feelings on the two places. Phoenix feels like Florida - largely unskilled immigrants and older people with money.

Philly also has a young professional population and vibe lacking in Phoenix.

[mike0421]

Originally Posted by irwin

At the risk of being hounded by some of the locals, I have to comment on this.

I like Philly a lot. I love Center City (my buddy used to live down there off Delancey by Rittenhouse Sq). But I am highly skeptical of Phoenix ever getting to be anything as vibrant or enjoyable as Philly. Although it is changing, Phoenix at its heart a pretty conservative place full of retirees or persons close to retirement. Many are not that concerned with vibrant neighborhoods, culture, entertainment, etc. Even though the complete car dependence exemplified by Phoenix is completely unsustainable, people are hardheaded. And whereas in Philly people really care about their neighborhood and street because they have been living in the same place all their life (and their families probably have lived there for generations), people in Phoenix don't have the same level of concern. Houses are traded like any other commodity. As a consequence, concerns about the city or community at large are trumped by "What I want."

While I agree with many aspects of this post, you are pre-supposing that 'conservative' = bad or negative. There are many who find this to be a positive virtue, including myself. 'Conservative' is being used pejoratively in this case.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by irwin

Simply stating my feelings on the two places. Phoenix feels like Florida - largely unskilled immigrants and older people with money.

Wow!! Are you wrong!!!!

[ArizonaBear]

Originally Posted by mike0421

While I agree with many aspects of this post, you are pre-supposing that 'conservative' = bad or negative. There are many who find this to be a positive virtue, including myself. 'Conservative' is being used pejoratively in this case.

Unfortunately my friend; you may be onto something there---------this coming from a Liberal (Old School variety).

By today's standards; a moderate 'Conservative' would been a Liberal by 1960's mores.

[scottie]

Originally Posted by rainrock

In all due respect Scooter I think I'll stick with The Brookings Institute/Fannie Mae in depth study. Unless of course you can produce some evidence other than I dont care what the census says
, if you find criteria to prove that information incorrect by all means do support your claim.Otherwise "I dont care what the census says" just isnt going to cut it.

It would be hard for me to believe that Philadelphia has more people living downtown than Chicago. Chicago has a much bigger downtown and has so many more high-rises. If the study you are referring to is only surveying the loop as downtown Chicago, I can see how it can come up with that number.

[rainrock]

Originally Posted by scottie

It would be hard for me to believe that Philadelphia has more people living downtown than Chicago. Chicago has a much bigger downtown and has so many more high-rises. If the study you are referring to is only surveying the loop as downtown Chicago, I can see how it can come up with that number.

I suspect Chicago may have surpassed Boston and Philadlephia concerning downtown population since the 2000 census. There has been a insane amount of recent residential towers built in Chicago. Philadlephia also continues to build residential towers but not nearly at the pace of Chicago.

But these were the numbers as of 2000 census concerning downtown population per Brookings Institute.

Philadlephia- 4.3 sq. mi. population density 18,341
Boston- 4.4 sq. mi. population density 18,063
Seattle- 1.2 sq. mi population density 14,402
Baltimore- 2.5 sq.mi. population density 11,805
Chicago- 3.7 sq. miles population density 11,240

Yes Chicago has an amazing downtown but dont underestimate Center City Philadlephia its one of the great urban centers in the usa and continues to grow every year.

Philadelphia

[SOON2BNSURPRISE]

Originally Posted by Patrick754

Actually Phoenix has a younger median age than Philadelphia. You should judge a place on facts, not tired stereotypes and assumptions.

If you go to the City Data site you can check out the information on both Philly and Phoenix. I was pleasantly surprised at both as they have similar populations, ages, ect. with Phoenix having the younger set. Average age is 30.4 in Phoenix. The average age in Philly is 34.7 if my memory is correct. From that data we can find that the kids live in Phoenix and the old fogies are in Philly. Truthfully though the ages are fairly close together.

[scottie]

Ok, those pictures are sweet and all but I dont think you know how big downtown Chicago is. Not to mention all of the insane amount of urban high-rises that stretch for 6 or 7 miles down the lakeshore. Chicago is way bigger than Philly

[rainrock]

O.K.. Good then, we seem to be making progress here. Your argument has gone from downtown Miami,Houston and Dallas are bigger than Philadelphia's, to Chicagos downtown is bigger than Philadelphias which I dont disagree with as the business district is 3x the size of Philadelphias.

Now the Brookings Institute seems to have different parameters to what constitutes downtown residential and they say at least as of 2000 census that Boston and Philly have more populated downtowns than Chicago. I think thats a very debatable topic and I'm skeptical of the low downtown Chicago statistics myself.