East Coast cities vs. Suburban Sprawl (Phoenix, Scottsdale: allergies, place to live, price)

[scottie]

Originally Posted by rainrock

The Northeast cities had their growth cycle the past 2 centuries when civic planning was exceptional and architectural design was paramount.The norteast cities are maxed out as annexation is simply not an option. Now most of the growth in the northeast is in the surrounding suburbs and its design is substandard much like the sunbelt.

It counted suburbs too, not just major cities. It was about half suburbs and half cities. The northeast is going no-where. I think youve posted enough pictures of Philly on here. Im not exactly sure why you keep posting them. it really is not that pretty of a city at all and it is not going anywhere. I'll take Chicago or Atlanta any day over Philly.

[Greatday]

I'd like to know - why is this thread in the Phoenix / Arizona section?

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by Patrick754

It's always amusing to watch the militant urbanists decry the Phoenix sprawl and then post a few pictures of gentrified urban neighborhoods and skyscrapers. In reality the majority of people in places like Philadelphia or Chicago don't live in gentrified neighborhoods or work in a highrise. They live and work amidst the suburban sprawl.

Or the urban squalor that lies just around the corner from the gentrified cafe.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by Highpointer

Why should Phoenix use the "Northeast model" in its city planning and development? I live in the Phoenix area, in part, because I don't like the cities of the Northeast. I have been to cities like New York, Philadelphia, and Boston, and the quality of life in these cities does not appear to be a good as the quality of life of Phoenix. Many people apparently agree with me, because the population of cities like Phoenix is growing a lot faster than the population of comparable cities of the Northeast.

Phoenix should not adopt the "Northeast model," because it is proven that the "Phoenix model" is a far better way to grow and develop a thriving, entreprising city with a high quality of life.

To me, the thing that makes city life bearable in Phoenix is that it is NOT like these urban nightmares in the northeast. You can run out some of the bums, paint them and fix them and put down cobble walkways to tacky croissant cafes, but in the end they are still the dilapidated relics of a bygone age - gigantic museum pieces representing the worst of human crowding and depersonalization. I think that all of those eastern cites are a dreadful place to work and live and, especially, raise a family. If I must live near millions of others, give me the new, modern, clean, and safe model with a little space to stretch and room to play that Phoenix and the other sunbelt cities represent!

[Patrick754]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

To me, the thing that makes city life bearable in Phoenix is that it is NOT like these urban nightmares in the northeast. What an awful way to live!

Unfortunately the militant urbanists feel a need to convert you to their quasi-religion. They'll deliver a fire and brimstone speech about the wonders of public transportation and the coming apocalypse of $5.00 a gallon gasoline. Phoenix will be cast into the pit and Philadelphia will be saved !!!!

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by Patrick754

Unfortunately the militant urbanists feel a need to convert you to their quasi-religion. They'll deliver a fire and brimstone speech about the wonders of public transportation and the coming apocalypse of $5.00 a gallon gasoline. Phoenix will be cast into the pit and Philadelphia will be saved !!!!

Let them hold forth as long and loudly as they like. They will never convince me or millions of others who fled that lifestyle to move to an urban core. I think their talents would find better use looking for solutions to the challenges of living "horizontally" in the sun rather than raising their fists and voices at the back end of the U-Hauls fleeing "paradise".

[rainrock]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Or the urban squalor that lies just around the corner from the gentrified cafe.

Truth be told if you flip flopped Phoenix and Philadlephia's location Phoenix would have become a complete ghetto much much moreso than Philadlephia did. Phoenix flimsy fabric would have been completely decimated by the historical events that plagued the northeast cities. Conversely if fabulously designed Philadlephia was given Phoenix's benefitially isolated ,climate friendly location it would be regarded as one of the best cities in the world.

Philadelphia and NYC's urban nature didnt cause its demise. The US government unleashing millions and millions of uneducated,unskilled, poverty stricken minority farmers into the big cities of the east coast is the main cause of the hardships of the big cities. If Phoenix had to endure the trials and tribulations of Philadlepha and NY then Phoenix would currently resemble Bangladesh or Mogadishu.

You dont have to necessarily fear urban design Phoenix, embrace it.The events that plagued the east coast cities aren't going to happen to you, you were too detached, fortunately you missed the apocalypse. Geography dictates that Phoenix could one day resemble the great cities of the world like Lisbon or Madrid but thats not going to happen with your anti social, selfish, me me me, bubble headed sunbelt suburban mindset.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by rainrock

Philadelphia and NYC's urban nature didnt cause its demise. The US government unleashing of millions and millions of uneducated,unskilled, poverty stricken minority farmers into the big cities of the east coast is the main cause of the hardships of the big cities. If Phoenix had to endure the trials and tribulations of what Philadlepha and NY had to endure Phoenix would resemble Bangladesh or Mogadishu.

The US government is doing the same, or worse, to the border states and cities. We may yet end up a third world city due to illegal immigration.

[rainrock]

Originally Posted by scottie

It counted suburbs too, not just major cities. It was about half suburbs and half cities. The northeast is going no-where.

You have to take landscape into consideration when discussing future growth. The suburban areas of the northeast have to take environmental issues into consideration. Its a very gifted area in regards to landscape and natural beauty, its not like Phoenix which is flat,(except for the nearby mountain range) very bland and easily built upon. The Northeast suburbs lie on the Piedmont which is heavily forrested and makes building difficult and preserving land critical. Of metro Philadlephias 5000 sq. miles probably 4000 sq. miles of it is private or preserved land.

[Patrick754]

Originally Posted by rainrock

You dont have to necessarily fear urban design Phoenix, embrace it.The events that plagued the east coast cities aren't going to happen to you, you were too detached, fortunately you missed the apocalypse. Geography dictates that Phoenix could one day resemble the great cities of the world like Lisbon or Madrid but thats not going to happen with your anti social, selfish, me me me, bubble headed sunbelt suburban mindset.

This is self righteous nonsense, Phoenix's design is what it is because it came of age with automobiles as the primary mode of transportation. Lisbon, Madrid and Philadelphia came of age with the horse and buggy and human feet as the primary mode of transportation. End of story.