East Coast cities vs. Suburban Sprawl (Phoenix, Mesa: transplants, hotels, home)

[HX_Guy]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

the tower at Central/VB that hopefully will get built

Are you taking about the One Central Park East high rise on the NE corner of Central and Van Buren, across the street from the Chase tower?

That building is already under construction...work is being done on the foundation and a tower crane is already up and operational, so it's a 100% definite that the building is going up! Another high rise going up...at 383', it will make a nice addition to the downtown skyline.

One Central Park East - 26 stories / 383'...


Where the building will go up...


Photoshoped pictures I worked on...


A couple recent shots of the construction...

[vegaspilgrim]

Yes, One Central Park East is what I was talking about. This is an important project to help consolidate the growing north area of downtown with the central CBD. That along with City Scape, to consolidate the south end. Although just because they've started construction is not a guarrantee it will be finished to completion-- there's a resort hotel right next to the Chandler mall that they abandoned in the middle of construction and for several years now it's been nothing but a concrete hulk. After seeing those pictures though, I'm more confident this one will be a success.

[jessiesma]

Originally Posted by Greatday

Could you possibly change your font color?? An old guy like me has some real trouble reading it.

Thanks

is this ok? or blue? I find I can see the difference between my comments and the ones I'm answering better if I use color but am happy to accommodate

[jessiesma]

Originally Posted by nickluva

if Jersey is the 6th borough does that make Miami the 7th? lol I actually like Jersey the only thing that sucks about it is that you can't pump your own gas

yeah that got me too after living in self serve states. you wait and wait in a line and for what?
Miami IS the 7th! NY with palm trees, lol. but in NY people will still give you the shirts off their backs (9/11?) if you're in trouble but Miami? bleech

I can think of a few more things that suck in NJ like everyone being about 110 years old mentally. They actually have computers there but when we lived there last, 2004, they were still using antiquated operating systems in a lot of businesses and the govt. agencies? They only got picture drivers licenses a few years before and people were still complaining that they were a "violation of privacy." You could still opt for the old style ones with no pic
Someone posted about the small disconnected towns. In NJ many of them flow together and you can't find where one ends and one begins... except by the bus lines. Each township has it's own and they don't cross borders in every place. There is a layer of county govt. but I never figured what they do. They descend from the old Dutch system of freeholders but there is no centralization of essential services e.g. schools, police, management. The county police only patrol "county" roads. I grew up on one of these. If an incident happened in the roadway, they'd answer, but if it was on the sidewalk, we had to call the town cops.
I'm just glad I'm out of there even tho, once you get off the turnpike and away from the towns, it is a beautiful state. They did do one good thing in recent years. There is a statewide initiative to preserve small farms by giving tax incentives for growing food items like fruit and veggies. Farms that were lying fallow are now producing in a sustainable and beneficial way. These small "truck" farms are the basis of the name "Garden State."
They tend to be expensive and inaccessible to the lower income residents however.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

The problem for Phoenix is that building high rise buildings anywhere-- even if the market demands it, is like pulling teeth. People will raise a stink about the "historic preservation" of every little 400 sq ft decaying shack, about mountain views being blocked, sunlight being blocked, every conceivable objection you can think of. Half of these projects end up going nowhere.

Absolutely right. The minute a new highrise or theme park is proposed, out come the NIMBYs from their isolated little world to protest. I think part of the problem is how city officials, and the general public actually give these whiners the attention they're desperate for. If they were ignored (as they should be), perhaps these things could actually materialize. Also, Phoenix has experienced run ins with the FAA (another wasteful government agency) about the height of the proposed buildings.

Of course you have other factors as to why projects don't always come to fruition: cost overruns, shady developers, or the market in general. But most all of the U.S. has seen a downturn in the housing market along with increased construction costs ... yet, highrise projects in other cities are going forward with little delay.

Originally Posted by silverbear

I think the term "NIMBY" is getting a bit overused on this board lately. Not every high-rise project proposed is a good one, and historic preservation, mountain views, and other intangible quality of life issues need to be weighed in decision making.

Sorry, but in the nation's fifth largest city, you can't base an economy or quality of life factors on mountain views, sunshine, preservation, or beautiful sunsets! When a city/metro area becomes this big, there are more important things that become essential ... such as reputable corporations based here that provide marketable, professional jobs with competitive salaries. A large city or region shouldn't depend on WalMart, Home Depot, or Circle K for its major employment base.

Perhaps the "NIMBY" term wouldn't be overused if the NIMBYs would simply live & let live. What these protestors & preservationists are doing is interfering with private development. The projects they are fighting against are usually on land that is owned by developers. In other words, it's NOT "their" property ... therefore, the developers have every right to build whatever they want, so long as it's legal & within zoning requirements.

The NIMBYs are really small minded individuals who really should move to smaller towns if they're so adamantly opposed to tall structures or other large city amenities. All they're really doing is making asses of themselves and standing in the way of free enterprise & capitalism.

[Beliy Plashik]

I personally prefer Philly to Phoenix. Philidelphia is one of the oldest cities in the country. There is more culture there, then Phoenix. Phoenix is more of a suburban sprawl.

But I love culture, diversity, and classic architecture. So New York, and Philly are more for me.

One thing that Phoenix has that is very bad is .. the weather. It is TOO extreme. Maybe if it was the temperature of Alberquerque then it would be bearable.

But .. oh the heat. And if your air conditioner breaks .. And you can get burned if you touch your car for more then 8 seconds.

[43north87west]

Originally Posted by cevett

In reference to Phoenix being the 5th largest city and taking over Philadelphia a few years ago: I just have to say that I like Phoenix for numerous reasons and I had a lot of fun living there. But this whole population argument thing going on here makes me laugh because Phoenix covers the largest area of land in the country which is exactly why it hardly resembles a "city". It's actually a rediculously spread out town.

Philadelphia, Chicago, NYC are "cities." You have vibrant downtowns in a real city.. Cities are Urban, not suburban sprawl and anexed land. If you count the square miles around Philly that Phoenix counts as it's own, Philly would absolutely dwarf Phoenix. It's Metro area already does.

Philadelphia has just as many people living in a quarter of the space. It's not a giant suburb, sprawling with identical strip malls and walmarts and franchised restaurants OVER and OVER again. Philadelphia has the 3rd largest downtown in the country and if you went there, you would see that it feels five times bigger than Phoenix becuase of the population density. Not to mention being the birth place of our country and the culture, history and architecture back East is unparalled on the West coast. It's much more like Europe given that's who created those cities.

I am originally from Portland Oregon and even Portland feels like a bigger city than Phoenix. It doesn't count when you annex five hundred plus square miles of land and call it a "city"..

I agree--I lived in Washington, Chicago, NJ, NY... Phoenix doesn't have the feel of an east coast city with the endless cultural, eating, drinking, and other opportunities within a few miles. It is extremely spread out. It was endlessly frustrating to me, and sometimes still is. I loved being able to walk out the door, walk to shopping, walk to eating, walk to everything. I can still do that to some extent, just not as much. No Metro or CTA trains either.

Having said that, Phoenix does have some major advantages: Traffic doesn't suck (comparatively) to Chicago and DC (both are worse than metro NY). It doesn't have the rotten ice storms, air travel delays, highway delays, and bad weather. There is a lot of open space, and the city feels accomodating especially where I live. The mountains are interesting and the city is not as dirty/dingy/run down. I guess what I'm saying is, there are some major advantages, and those are what brought me to Phoenix. But there are things that I sorely miss, and I probably will continue to. Like block after block of high rise buildings flanked by old brownstone residences, condominiums, adn row houses. The Magnificent Mile for shoppers like me. Fortunately I have a place in the Midwest so I get to enjoy the eastern-type (Chicagoland) opportunities when I feel like it, but stay away during rotten weather.

[silverbear]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Perhaps the "NIMBY" term wouldn't be overused if the NIMBYs would simply live & let live. What these protestors & preservationists are doing is interfering with private development. The projects they are fighting against are usually on land that is owned by developers. In other words, it's NOT "their" property ... therefore, the developers have every right to build whatever they want, so long as it's legal & within zoning requirements.

In many cases, the disputes over new projects involve requests by developers for exceptions to existing zoning, so it's unclear if developers automatically have the right described above. In any case, managing a large city involves careful balancing of competing interests rather than reflexive labeling of people and rigid ideology.

[airbag]

to address the original question - most people on this planet don't consider phoenix a major city. oddly enough, the only people who do are a few who live here and probably wish they didn't. this place doesn't really claim to be a major city, and that's the way it should be. phoenix's place is not as a world class city, and it never will be, nor should be - you'd have to be on crack to make that claim - or have never lived anywhere else. rather, phoenix is a solid mid-sized city with great weather 9 months out of the year, mostly affordable and convenient - there is nothing wrong with this, and it certainly doesn't imply any inferiority. but if you are looking for a real urban experience, rich in diversity and culture, look elsewhere.

[SOON2BNSURPRISE]

A thought occured to me today and since that seldom happens I figure that I will share it here in this forum. My mom grew up in Chicago. She would tell us how much she loved the fact that you could do so much in such a small area. They could walk down town, go out to eat, see a movie, and get back home without driving anywhere. Made it nice in the winter too because you had everything so close. In fact my uncle and his wife who is Chineese had several resteraunts in Chicago that would deliver to your home. Even in the winter time there was no problem, because everything is so close.

I don't know if you here how our winters are in Southern California and in the Phoenix area. We can be further from down town because the weather isn't keeping us from what we want to do like it does in the mid west and east coast cities.