East Coast cities vs. Suburban Sprawl (Phoenix, Tucson: condo, house, school)

[twiggy]

Wow, poor Phoenix. Why compare 2 totally different climates. High rises do good in the cold because heat rises. It would be stupid for us to have too many right>?

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by ArizonaBear

One thing that I dislike about many cities (San Francisco being an exception) is the skyscrapers.

In other words; the fact that Phx is still a 'horizontal' city appeals to me

Horizontal is good, huh? Yes, let's keep building outward, and expand Phoenix's & Peoria's city limits northward to Sedona. Stretch Buckeye & the west Valley out to the California border. Expand the entire east Valley to the White Mountains & give them a well deserved heat island!

Going vertical is beneficial in so many ways to even mention all in one posting. Besides, that's what a broader share of the market is demanding these days, so why go against the free market? Also, highrises define a city's skyline ... and since Phoenix is the nation's fifth largest city, it makes no sense to keep building more look alike subdivisions & strip malls and call that part of our skyline.

[nickluva]

Originally Posted by ArizonaBear

One thing that I dislike about many cities (San Francisco being an exception) is the skyscrapers.

In other words; the fact that Phx is still a 'horizontal' city appeals to me

To each his own. Phoenix needs to become more vertical

[twiggy]

Why? Because that is how you define a city? The west builds out, the east builds up.
Hey, look on the bright side, we aren't a good terrorist target! lol
We are sprawl, we are new, we share our culture with those across the border, we are a western city. We don't have to want to be like everyone else. Where will all the soccer moms go if you remove our suburbs and parks>We don't have time to travel to the city!!!Or go to the theatre. lol I understand what you want, it is why I always want to live back east. It will never happen here though. I have stopped trying to change Phx, and started appreciating why it is what it is. It's cheap, hot and mini van friendly!
We might want to work on our pollution and education problem before we worry about culture or entertainment. We are like an irresponsible teenager.

[blisterpeanuts]

Hm, interesting thread. Having just moved from Boston where I lived for 25+ years (but grew up in the Southwest) I have a few random comments.

Arizona is beautiful. It hits you as your plane is landing--or as you come in from New Mexico on I-40. Phoenix is lovely with all the palm trees, sahuaros and desert landscaping, the hills and mountains liberally sprinkled around the city, the Spanish roofs, the mix of modern and old Western styles. The roads are luxuriously wide and easy to navigate. The signage is pretty good (especially coming from Boston, where they frequently don't post the names of side streets or even major streets). My eternal thanks to whoever preserved the mountains. The natural mountains make the city something special.

The people are laid back, except occasionally on the road where you may encounter some BMW-driving maniacs from back East and more than a few truck/SUV drivers with attitudes. The Mexicans do most of the grunt work around here, and they're friendly and easy going and seem to appreciate a wave and a smile from a passer by. There is some great Mexican food and great other cuisine as well.

Phoenix is undoubtedly a big city. It's humongous, actually. Since I'm just getting to know it I can't comment on how unified it is versus an Eastern city but I will say this. The Eastern cities are collections of neighborhoods and townships. People don't say "I live in Boston" unless they're talking to someone from out of town. To a local they'll say they're from Southie, or the North End, or the South End, or Dorchester, Roxbury, West Roxbury, Cambridge, Back Bay, Charlestown, Watertown, Revere, etc. Even within the towns you have neighborhoods. There are big differences between East Cambridge, North Cambridge, and Cambridgeport, for example.

There are some high tech jobs in the region. Intel, Honeywell, etc. Lots of companies are relocating here from more expensive areas and I am seeing lots of computer programming positions, at least. Arizona is an open minded state when it comes to business. If you have an idea, you can run with it. It's a free enterprise mentality here. There are lots of enterprising people here and the atmosphere is can-do, future oriented. But there are plenty of such people back East as well--just wander around MIT in Cambridge, and you'll see hundreds of brilliant little high tech start-ups which will someday be the future Microsofts and Googles of the world.

What needs to be improved?

Phoenix should (in my opinion) put a lot more money into its public transportation system. It's got the perfect street layout, as a previous poster pointed out. Now they just need to buy a few more buses and run them a little more often. I checked whether I could take a bus or even 2-3 buses to get to a job in Scottsdale from Glendale--it is impossible to get there by 8:30am on the buses. I could get there by about 10am after 2.5 hours. If I could get there in, say, 75 minutes, I'd take the bus. Build it and they will come. More buses means fewer motorists and the commute will be more pleasant for everyone. As a business, public transportation loses money, but in every other way it makes the city richer--less pollution, fewer accidents, less damage to the roads, more economic activity.

There needs to be a larger police presence. If I could have voted in September, I would have voted yes on the referendum. I'm glad it passed. We may need to do it again soon. There's too much car theft and too much aggressive driving. I am a bit of a libertarian in many ways but I'm not in favor of anarchy. The aggressive driving is nearly as bad as Boston's, and believe me Boston is bad.

Someone commented on the rudeness of Easterners. This is a myth, really. I can tell you that the native Bostonians and New Yorkers are as friendly as you can get, underneath those gruff exteriors and weird accents. They may not act superficially friendly at first, but after they get to know you and trust you they are loyal for life. Really, people are about the same everywhere. I have met nothing but helpful and friendly New Yorkers every time I visited Manhattan. One time I was in some mega subway station in Manhattan, and after buying a slice of the best pizza I have ever eaten, I walked over to a rough looking gang of youths and asked how to get to Brooklyn and they were most helpful. I don't know--they say if you act scared you may attract more predators.

In summary my advice would be:
Grow up in Philadelphia
Go to college in Boston
Find a job in New York City
Settle down and raise a family in Phoenix

[Clutch718]

Phoenix needs to expand it's light-rail system, and additionally set up some kind of tram going around the main arteries.

[Greatday]

Many non native Phoenicans fail to realize the impact of migration patterns of the increasing population - many (certainly not all) come from hi density populated areas - and the one thing they DO NOT WANT is to live in "hi density populated areas" such as they had "back home" - hence the demand to spread OUT rather than UP -

[Clutch718]

Originally Posted by Greatday

Many non native Phoenicans fail to realize the impact of migration patterns of the increasing population - many (certainly not all) come from hi density populated areas - and the one thing they DO NOT WANT is to live in "hi density populated areas" such as they had "back home" - hence the demand to spread OUT rather than UP -

That's true, however spreading UP wouldn't necessarily be the best thing for a city like Phoenix. Mainly because of how the high-rise condos, co-ops, and apartments store heat very well. It will probably push the urban heat-island effect to the next level (I'm talking 100 degree overnight lows).

If I had a say in it, I'd probably get rid of dark pavement, build effective public transportation, and expand the job market into the suburbs.

[BillyBaroo]

I lived in apartments for 15 years and don't care much now for having people living below me, above me, or just on the other side of a single wall. It was good when I was single, but with a family, we're just too noisy.

For the heat island, we also need more new trees planted. And also more landscaping with vegetation instead of just rocks.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by Clutch718

That's true, however spreading UP wouldn't necessarily be the best thing for a city like Phoenix. Mainly because of how the high-rise condos, co-ops, and apartments store heat very well. It will probably push the urban heat-island effect to the next level (I'm talking 100 degree overnight lows).

If I had a say in it, I'd probably get rid of dark pavement, build effective public transportation, and expand the job market into the suburbs.

Going "up" is not the kind of problem here as it is in New York - our way of construction and ventilation takes care of some of the problems you mention.

As a lifelong resident of the Valley of the Sun, I can agree that the Heat Island effect is causing a lot of the climate change in the urban cores and some outlying areas - grass, concrete, asphalt etc are simply signs of the times - although more and more, prohibition on grass is becoming more likely.

We now live in the desert on the fringes of the valley - we love the cool nights and bright stars - the way Phoenix used to be