Do you feel that Tempe is little more urban than Phoenix? (Glendale: real estate, travel)

[nickluva]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

I work in downtown Tempe, but I hardly ever walk or drive on Mill Avenue. Although that district has a lot of activity, it's mostly a college age crowd looking for an active bar scene. I think a lot of downtown Tempe's business either is currently (or will be) negatively affected by Tempe Market Place, which is a few miles to the east. That's unfortunate because Mill Avenue is truly an urban experience in a suburban city. That new mall is causing Mill Avenue merchants to potentially lose business.

I like what is happening with the upward development in downtown Tempe. Centerpoint is coming along nicely with 22 story and 30 story condo towers. Down the street from Centerpoint, another highrise project (Mosaic) appears to have broken ground, but construction seems to have been delayed.

Tempe, Scottsdale, and even Glendale are more than just suburbs. They are separate cities within the metro area which are getting quite active on their own. The problem with Phoenix as a city itself is it was ALLOWED to sprawl outward so much ... therefore, 90% of it looks and feels suburban. Phoenix wouldn't have a population of 1.6 million residents if the city limits weren't expanded to the edge of the earth! I blame past city councils and former Mayor Skip Rimsza for much of that.

I agree with everything you said. They should have built Tempe Marketplace out in Chandler or something. Tempe is just getting more urban but the Marketplace is going to set it back a little. I love with what they're doing with the high rises but they are messing up some things too. Mill Ave used to be so authentic. It had unique bars,music venues,dj shops,etc. They got rid of those places and replaced them. Now they got the Gap, Abercrombie and Ann Taylor now it looks like any other shopping mall. Tempe maybe getting more urbanized but by the time they're done it's gonna have no soul and it will be nothing more than a yuppiefied hangout.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

therefore, 90% of it looks and feels suburban. Phoenix wouldn't have a population of 1.6 million residents if the city limits weren't expanded to the edge of the earth! I blame past city councils and former Mayor Skip Rimsza for much of that.

Why blame Skip? A majority of the planning was approved under Paul Johnson

As for "sprawl" - understandable concern. However, most of those in Phoenix did not want to live in high density areas - they wanted a realitively low density surburban area - out not up -

[kylefox101]

Yes Tempe does seem much more urban, which is slightly dissapointing as Phoenix has the potential for something like San Francisco's Union Square (on a much smaller scale). But then again who would want to be in an urban environmet when it is 110 out!

[_Charles_]

I would not say it is 100% walkable but the Central corridor just north of downtown has a nice feel to it (16th Street on the east, Camelback on the south, 19th Ave on the west and Glendale on the north).

[desert student]

I don't really think Tempe is anymore urban than Phoenix, but then again, it is Phoenix, so the word urban doesn't quite have the same context that it would in other cities. I do think that Tempe has a very different feel to that of Phoenix due to it holding one of the biggest universities in the country within the city. Overall Tempe has more of a youthful and ever young feel than Mesa, or Glendale do IMO. Mesa has tons of families while Tempe has tons of college kids. However, since ASU pulls high school and grad students from all over the world, many of which from are big urban cities, it shouldn't be a suprise that they would bring some of this with them and when finished with school try to establish it here. Since Tempe is landlocked, and Phoenix isn't, I believe Tempe shows the strongest sign of "growing up" first. I really hope that it doesn't happen. I think the reason people are moving to the Phoenix area, is due in large measure to the fact that it is one of the biggest cities in the nation, but feels like a very large and accomodating suburb. Since suburban cities are becoming more and more poplular, and some boasting higher growth than their central cities, Phoenix and Tempe should keep a close watch and pace themselves. They have become the refuge for people looking for city/suburban living. By creating a huge urban core in any of metro cities, it might discourage people into looking at other locations.

[nickluva]

Originally Posted by desert student

I believe Tempe shows the strongest sign of "growing up" first. I really hope that it doesn't happen. I think the reason people are moving to the Phoenix area, is due in large measure to the fact that it is one of the biggest cities in the nation, but feels like a very large and accomodating suburb. Since suburban cities are becoming more and more poplular, and some boasting higher growth than their central cities, Phoenix and Tempe should keep a close watch and pace themselves. They have become the refuge for people looking for city/suburban living. By creating a huge urban core in any of metro cities, it might discourage people into looking at other locations.

Why wouldn't you want a major metropolitan area like Phoenix to develop a huge urban core?? Would you rather have the whole area to keep sprawling out through the desert all the way to Mexico??

Why not have a metro area where you have an urban core with suburban outlying areas? Who wants to hang out in the suburbs all the time? What if you want to escape to the city? The burbs are cool and everything but they get boring quick.

What about people who want to go and venture out and see the beauty of the desert? But they no longer can because it's been transformed into another power center with a walmart or a target??

Phoenix needs a smart growth plan badly. This is what should happen Phoenix is pretty spread out already as it is so we should start building up instead of further out. Start in downtown Phoenix and Tempe and then build up the downtown areas of Mesa, Scottsdale, Chandler and Glendale. Those can be our urban cores where people want to go experience city life.

For the suburban areas the valley already has this mastered so we can just keep that the way it is and stop spreading out into the middle of the desert.

And there you have it a metro area that everybody can enjoy. The urban people get their urban cores, the suburban families can live happy in the burbs and the folks that like to go out in the country(well desert) can do that as well without having go drive so far.

[miamiman]

Originally Posted by ibarrio

I think Tempe is a suburb of Phoenix. And everything Tempe has exists because of Phoenix.

Believe it or not, there was a time when Tempe wasn't considered a suburb of Phoenix.

Tempe Normal School began when you would have to cross several miles of desert on horseback to travel from Phoenix.

That said, Tempe is more urban than any part of Phoenix. I am really proud that Tempe town leaders have had the foresight to allow Tempe to reach the urban state it's in now.

Hopefully other suburbs in the Valley can follow Tempe's example, to increase quality of life for Valley residents, and to garner more respect for the Valley from people who do not live here.

[miamiman]

Originally Posted by nickluva

Why wouldn't you want a major metropolitan area like Phoenix to develop a huge urban core?? Would you rather have the whole area to keep sprawling out through the desert all the way to Mexico??

Why not have a metro area where you have an urban core with suburban outlying areas? Who wants to hang out in the suburbs all the time? What if you want to escape to the city? The burbs are cool and everything but they get boring quick.

What about people who want to go and venture out and see the beauty of the desert? But they no longer can because it's been transformed into another power center with a walmart or a target??

Phoenix needs a smart growth plan badly. This is what should happen Phoenix is pretty spread out already as it is so we should start building up instead of further out. Start in downtown Phoenix and Tempe and then build up the downtown areas of Mesa, Scottsdale, Chandler and Glendale. Those can be our urban cores where people want to go experience city life.

For the suburban areas the valley already has this mastered so we can just keep that the way it is and stop spreading out into the middle of the desert.

And there you have it a metro area that everybody can enjoy. The urban people get their urban cores, the suburban families can live happy in the burbs and the folks that like to go out in the country(well desert) can do that as well without having go drive so far.

I agree with everything you said. The major issue I see here in the Valley is the desire for newness. A lot of people, me included, love the feeling of going shopping in a newly completed shopping center or living in a new house. City leaders are so used to the newness of everything that I am not sure that they know how to go about retrofitting the existing built environment.

[desert student]

Originally Posted by nickluva

Why wouldn't you want a major metropolitan area like Phoenix to develop a huge urban core?? Would you rather have the whole area to keep sprawling out through the desert all the way to Mexico??

Why not have a metro area where you have an urban core with suburban outlying areas? Who wants to hang out in the suburbs all the time? What if you want to escape to the city? The burbs are cool and everything but they get boring quick.

What about people who want to go and venture out and see the beauty of the desert? But they no longer can because it's been transformed into another power center with a walmart or a target??

Phoenix needs a smart growth plan badly. This is what should happen Phoenix is pretty spread out already as it is so we should start building up instead of further out. Start in downtown Phoenix and Tempe and then build up the downtown areas of Mesa, Scottsdale, Chandler and Glendale. Those can be our urban cores where people want to go experience city life.

For the suburban areas the valley already has this mastered so we can just keep that the way it is and stop spreading out into the middle of the desert.

And there you have it a metro area that everybody can enjoy. The urban people get their urban cores, the suburban families can live happy in the burbs and the folks that like to go out in the country(well desert) can do that as well without having go drive so far.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough. My fault. I do think that the Phoenix area does need and deserve a solid urban core. In fact, with the size of Phoenix, it needs more than what it has. But I guess I'm a little worried since the people that are attracted to Phoenix aren't really interested in the city life. But, like I said, as it keeps gaining in population, and pulling from areas all over the nation, people are going to start to want it. I just don't think that the whole area should get this false sense of market, and then build something that taps into a group that isn't there. I think that a skyline like that of Houston or Dallas would look great next to the desert/mountain backdrop.

[AZ_680]

Originally Posted by nickluva

Why wouldn't you want a major metropolitan area like Phoenix to develop a huge urban core?? Would you rather have the whole area to keep sprawling out through the desert all the way to Mexico??

Why not have a metro area where you have an urban core with suburban outlying areas? Who wants to hang out in the suburbs all the time? What if you want to escape to the city? The burbs are cool and everything but they get boring quick.

What about people who want to go and venture out and see the beauty of the desert? But they no longer can because it's been transformed into another power center with a walmart or a target??

Phoenix needs a smart growth plan badly. This is what should happen Phoenix is pretty spread out already as it is so we should start building up instead of further out. Start in downtown Phoenix and Tempe and then build up the downtown areas of Mesa, Scottsdale, Chandler and Glendale. Those can be our urban cores where people want to go experience city life.

For the suburban areas the valley already has this mastered so we can just keep that the way it is and stop spreading out into the middle of the desert.

And there you have it a metro area that everybody can enjoy. The urban people get their urban cores, the suburban families can live happy in the burbs and the folks that like to go out in the country(well desert) can do that as well without having go drive so far.

Completely agreed.

I'd like to see some more high-rises in all the downtowns as well, especially Phoenix's. Though I must admit I've learned to appreciate the less dense skyline; it lets the mountains show more. Skyscraper-packed cities such as Chicago and Miami are starting to seem somewhat ugly to me. Only NYC is able to get away with having that many buildings.