Moved from MI to PHX area. Here are my thoughts after 1 year! (Phoenix: jobs)

[Ponderosa]

That was some pretty serious stereotyping, trudawg. I think the illegal immigration problem has made us all - white, black and brown edgy and intolerant of each other. I hear people of all races and ethnicities - people who should know better - say and think things about the other that would never have entered their minds 10 years ago. Phoenix is ground zero and the tensions are maybe higher here than in some places that have not been so obviously affected. I hope we can get some resolution to this problem soon because the longer it goes on the deeper the scars and the prejudice we are going to have to overcome.

[Bummer]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

That was some pretty serious stereotyping, trudawg. I think the illegal immigration problem has made us all - white, black and brown edgy and intolerant of each other. I hear people of all races and ethnicities - people who should know better - say and think things about the other that would never have entered their minds 10 years ago. Phoenix is ground zero and the tensions are maybe higher here than in some places that have not been so obviously affected. I hope we can get some resolution to this problem soon because the longer it goes on the deeper the scars and the prejudice we are going to have to overcome.

Very valid point, Ponderosa. BEAUTIFULLY STATED!

[southphoenix]

Rude people are everywhere trudawg. It's not just limited to the West Valley ...

As for your racist experience with the tires ... man, that's just the way it is! It's not cool but many Mexicans have historically had bad feelings toward black people. That's not going to change anytime soon.

I am a 34-year-old brotha who is a native of Phoenix (yes, we are very rare) and I've noticed the explosive increase in the Mexican population here.

I have to admit that if I was a Mexican illegal here, I wouldn't be friendly with people of other races here.

Even though the illegals have been able to find jobs here, thankless jobs that most of us would never want to do, Americans treat Mexican illegals like they are the scum of the earth!

Sheriff Joe Arpaio is on TV everyday talking about his disgust for anyone who enters our country illegally, there's a hotline for people to call if they suspect illegals are here, groups like the Minutemen that terrorize illegals who are crossing our borders and drophouses filled with dozens of illegals are being busted up everyday by the police!

If I was a Mexican illegal here, I'd be terrified and I wouldn't trust anyone!

It's crazy because I live in South Phoenix and it used to be known as the black/African American part of town. Of course there are still thousands of African Americans who live in South Phoenix, but Mexicans probably outnumber us by a 5-to-1 ratio now!

I live in a nice house but it's very obvious that a few of my Mexican neighbors are not here legally (renters). In fact, my next door neighbor told me, "I don't have all of my papers yet."

He's the only Mexican neighbor who has ever said a word to me.

The rest go to work, come home and sit in their garages or front lawns socializing with their own families. They don't even socialize with the other Mexican families on our street!

Why?

I suspect that they keep to themselves out of fear. They know that people of other races are watching them (yes I watch them) and they don't want to make waves. They don't want to do anything that will get them reported.

Of course, I wholeheartedly believe that the Mexicans who are here illegally should not be here! They should have applied for US citizenship even if the process is broken!

However, I don't expect the Mexicans who are here illegally to be fake and smile at me or engage in conversations with me.

They are not blind to the disgust and hatred that many Americans feel toward them.

[trudawg]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

That was some pretty serious stereotyping, trudawg. I think the illegal immigration problem has made us all - white, black and brown edgy and intolerant of each other. I hear people of all races and ethnicities - people who should know better - say and think things about the other that would never have entered their minds 10 years ago. Phoenix is ground zero and the tensions are maybe higher here than in some places that have not been so obviously affected. I hope we can get some resolution to this problem soon because the longer it goes on the deeper the scars and the prejudice we are going to have to overcome.

good points, however I would say I'm more guilty of generalizing than I stereotyping

[southphoenix]

Hey TruDawg ...

Since I'm a native and a brotha, I should tell you that the West Valley has eternally been the redheaded stepchild of the Phoenix area.

For the most part, all of the exciting and convenient retail and development is in Scottsdale and the East Valley.

The West Valley is starting to show signs of life with the University of Phoenix stadium, Westgate City Center, Gateway Pavilions in Avondale and Arrowhead Mall. However, it'll be a looooong time before the wessssst siiiiiiide becomes a hot spot in town!

If you're planning to move, the north side is great! I grew up there and loved my experience even though I didn't see many black people. If you're looking to be around more professional minorities, South Phoenix, Chandler and Tempe are the ideal spots.

[Boatdrinks]

I'm curious how you'd feel if I wrote the same exact post that you did, but instead of "Mexican" it said "black."

I'd probably be called a racist, among other things, and I imagine you'd be pretty PO'd.

Every race has rude people, as well as racist and stupid people.

Edited to add an example for effect :
Obviously there are ALOT of blacks here ... and I in my opinion an overwhelmingly majority of them are the most UNFRIENDLY people I've ever come across. Most don't speak to you, don't speak back to you, don't even look at you, and they seem to be working at alot of the establishments that I shop at. I notice the small things, like when you allow a fellow driver to get over, or let someone out who's turning in front of you. Usually a driver will give a wave as to say thanks for letting me in/out. 100% of the time blacks will never say thanks. I know this sounds trivial, but it's just the tip of the iceberg. I realize that there are cultural differences, but I thought that manners were universal. Even if you don't speak the language, how hard is it to smile at someone or smile back. Sometimes I go to a MAJOR chain fast food restaurant and the person taking my order doesn't even speak English. I feel as though they feel like they're better than me, and I don't belong in their areas.

[yakijy]

I can go any of the predominantly Mexican areas of town, and get out of my car and walk around, and not feel endangered. I came from Chicago, and can't say the same about there.

[artvandelay]

Trudawg,

I grew up in Lansing, then lived in and around Chicago for 11 years before moving here. I am white and live in the west valley. I agree with much of what you say, as I've been here only a year and a half. I also know only 2 of my neighbors, and it's frustrating. If you say hello in any language, people look at you like you're a cop. I've read on this thread that it's also a function of western culture vs. midwest, where people tend to talk more openly. The block fences at every house (I don't know if it's environmentally necessary) are an indication of how disconnected neighbors are.

In the midwest, at least 5 or 10 years ago, I assumed a Spanish-speaking person was a legal immigrant. Here, and maybe there now, it's the opposite assumption. I totally understand the motivation of illegals, as I would probably do the same thing. It's that once they are here, there is often no attempt or desire to be "American", just collect as much cash as possible. Many, not all, illegals will do whatever necessary with disregard to laws or their fellow man.

I go back and forth being depressed about this place, and just when I'm thinking the worst, I see or experience the human spirit in action, and it makes me feel a little better. It's less the immigrant's fault, than the fault of the Mexican and US governments. Mexico openly states that they prefer to send their less-promising citizens to America, practically forces them here. Then American govt and captains of industry have come to depend on them, ignoring what is happening to the legal Americans. The 99% of our population, who control only 5% of the country's wealth, are the ones who experience the downside. The ultra-wealthy depend on an exploitable class of workers to grow their wealth. It really is a divided, classist country, and Phoenix is a great example of this.

[ranman469]

i also moved from Michigan {Dearborn} outside Detroit. i have had no issues in any of my travels thought the valley. i live in the east valley and work in phoenix. as far as rude racist people. nothing compared to Detroit!
i have been here since June 07 not sure if i`m staying? love the weather and the things to do. but miss my friends and my home there that now is a rental.

[gregandvicky]

I just read every post in this thread, it is not just Phoenix, it is everywhere. I am in central Texas and it is exactly the same here.

The illegals are trying to be invisible.