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It was so much different than what I was used to. I was used to miserable things like a city in the green, lush forests of Oregon.. beautiful volcano's, snow capped mountains and Rivers, the Pacific Ocean and Lakes everywhere you turned..
I won't call moving here a waste because I met my wife and we now have a beautiful daughter and a good life, but what a suburban waste land this is..
We headed to the East coast last month.
People rant and rave about Phoenix being the 5th largest city (statistically) in the U.S... It's nothing more than one suburb after another with (people are exactly right) no culture, history, convenience, ANY big city ammeneties.
You can draw a big enough circle anywhere and get four million people. Many other regions of the country are far more entitled to the 5th biggest city when you look at it that way..
The population density in Phoenix is a whopping 3,000 people per square mile... In fact, as far as vibrant cities go, ALL SW cities suck..
L.A. is 9,000 humans per square mile with no central entertainment district... The original "sprawl city" before Phoenix took over.
Philadelphia which is overshadowd because of it's close proximity to NYC is 16,000.. That's five times as many people walking around any given area of Philly than Phoenix and the metro area is 2 million people larger in 1/4 of the space..
There are cities in NJ with 45,000 people per square mile and I don't even want to touch the big city feel difference there, yet NJ claims no HUGE cities because they are their own municipalities and don't anex land for census purposes..
Manhattan is 66,000 per square mile.. Phoenix is a joke.. They anex land and incorporate communitites that want nothing to do with them into their own. That's why they keep moving outward.. Snowbirds and Retirees want their own land and to be away from the city. They are flocking here to retire and it requires the city to keep expanding and for businesses to keep moving outward and forever keeping this city from having any center of entertainment. The Phoenix gov are too afraid to set any boundries because this growth is good for them economically.
I moved to Phoenix not believing friends who had moved here before me about how dead it is to end up driving 30 minutes to a town with 250,000 people to have fun.. (scottsdale) a suburb.. I've never seen anything like this in my life. It's truly Pathetic.
Well, I happen to agree with you on Phoenix. My suggestion is to leave. That place is beyond help at this point.
Ventura County is a nice area, I've driven through there a number of times. In fact, we were in Ventura back in March of 2007, and we visited Ft. Huaneme (sp?) I also went swimming when it was something like 65 degrees on the beach.
On the spread-out metro area, there's nothing wrong with it, Phoenix was that way up until just 10 years ago, but if it gets overbuilt like LA, that can be a problem.
MagnumMike, with the real estate market dead in the valley do you think that Phoenix will continue to bust at the seams?
I moved to Phoenix not believing friends who had moved here before me about how dead it is to end up driving 30 minutes to a town with 250,000 people to have fun.. (scottsdale) a suburb.. I've never seen anything like this in my life. It's truly Pathetic.
I think it is possible to live a good life in a variety of areas and in a variety of environments. The East Coast is beautiful and far preferable for many things: Arts, culture, entertainment, public transportation, and the list goes on. I don't think I could survive the valley in the middle of a big subdivision, in a sea of other subdivisions. Almost all the restaurants are chains. Nightclubs are in strip malls. But the area in which I live now is nice, has amenities, and doesn't require constant time behind the wheel (I don't go to work, so I expect not to be forced to drive for any reason whatsoever).
The East is a headache for other reasons. How about having I-95 backed up bumper-to-bumper from New York to Virginia Beach, VA on holiday weekends. Impossible travel in overcrowded airspace with no room for bad weather. How about bad weather in and of itself. Ice storms, northeasters, hurricane remnants. Violent ghettos (LA and Oakland also boast these unique slices of Americana).
I'm from the east, I love the east, but it is too challenging in the cities for me, unless I could commute and exist only by train. I've done the rat race commute for too long, trying to get out of work at 2:30pm so I can race a bunch of other idiots for the beltway, to avoid driving two hours back home. If/when Phoenix traffic becomes a nightmare like DC or Chicago, I'm out of here too. But for now, weather, "acceptable" cost of living, and interesting scenery are good enough. For the long term, who knows. All I know is that on Thanksgiving weekend, 2006, I drove from Pittsburgh, PA to Stafford County, VA. This took me from 3pm to 10pm. I sat at a dead standstill on the PA turnpike for HOURS. I finally got to an exit, detoured through rural Maryland, West Virginia, and then back into Virginia, just to keep moving. Let me tell you, that was not only the last time I went anywhere on a holiday, it was also the "not worth it" epiphany that I had, prompting me to leave my very lucrative position out east. I just didn't see the need for the complexity, just to live in an area that I was lukewarm about.
There can be quality of life in Phoenix as there can be almost anywhere, but not for everyone. I'm a tough guy to please and I spend a lot of time in Chicago because it has a nice east-coast feel without some of the things I don't like about the east. Also, since I'm tough to please, I dislike everywhere I live for many reasons, but I also miss many things about places I have lived. I hated Virginia for the rednecks, but I loved it for the down to earth quality of the people. I hated Chicago for traffic, but I loved it any time I could take the train and forget about traffic, or any time I enjoyed a whole day on foot without ever getting in a car or a cab. I loved Milwaukee for the 5,000 square feet of historic Victorian home I had, for the endless eating, and a delay-free airport, and hated it for a violent ghetto that did nothing but grew larger and got more violent. I loved Washington DC for the action, but hated it for the politics. I could go on about other places too. I don't like the Stepford Wives where I live, but I love how nice and clean it is in my immediate vicinity.
One day I might just pick up a slice of mountain land and build myself a one-room Kaczynski (ok--a 4000+sq. ft. log cabin). Call it quits. Or perhaps a beach property. Maybe Colorado, maybe New Hampshire, maybe Florida. But I'm not there yet. I'm not that far along with my distaste for humanity, still having other places to enjoy (and detest) prior to doing so.
MagnumMike, with the real estate market dead in the valley do you think that Phoenix will continue to bust at the seams?
Uh, what makes you think it's dead? Maybe it's dead for you if you live in Queen Creek but someone like myself who lives in Houston and is shopping for homes in desirable area of Phoenix, the houses have not gone down and the competition is still as fierce. I would love if the valley was dead like you say. The areas I'm interested are N. Scottsdale, Chandler, Gilbert, Ahwautukee and the Arcadia section of Phoenix. None of those areas are dead at all
I Reside In Detroit,mi And I Have Delivered Freight In Phoenix,az And The Sights Were So Beautiful. You Get Excepts Of The Beginnings Of The Earths Developements. I For One Can Appreciate That Single Beauty Thats Only Found In Az And Its Surrounding Area.
We Live In The Most Diverse Terrains In The World, One Needs To Appreciate The Creative Force Behind Its Beauty. I Would Give Up Detroit Anyday For Phx,az.
Yes, it is. And that can explain why so many New Yorkers seem bitter, pushy, rude, and blunt. If I was paying thousands of dollars in rent every month for a sardine can of an apartment infested with rodents, and had to contend with the squeezed in nature of a city of eight million people crammed into a few square miles, I'd probably be angry and harsh as well.
Phoenix at least has a little elbow room ... but I agree that we are a little too spread out. Sprawl is the cause of the urban heat island, and the decay of many urban neighborhoods. Only recently has there been any interest in making the downtown area more vibrant and vertical like it should be.
Also, the politics of this region is FAR better than the east coast, where much of the government has been run by corrupt labor unions and the mob. But at least the trains run on time, right?! Phoenix certainly has its faults, which I have clearly pointed out many times. But compared to your beloved east coast rat holes, this place is much better managed, easier to commute in, and the people tend to be friendlier.
Here are some other comparisons:
ANSWERING THE PHONE IN PHOENIX: "Hello."
ANSWERING THE PHONE IN NEW YORK: "Who the hell is this?!"
THE SERVICE INDUSTRY IN PHOENIX: "May I help you?"
THE SERVICE INDUSTRY IN NEW YORK: "Yeah, whadya want?!"
GETTING DIRECTIONS IN PHOENIX: "Drive down the 202 and turn off at the second exit."
GETTING DIRECTIONS IN NEW YORK: "Hey, what am I, a friggin' map?!"
MEETING A FRIEND FOR LUNCH IN PHOENIX: "Did you eat? No, did you? No, let's go down the street and grab a bite to eat."
MEETING A FRIEND FOR LUNCH IN NEW YORK: " 'Jeet? 'Ju? 'Sko!"
See, that's exactly the type of place I WOULDN'T want to live.
The reason I'm moving to Phoenix is because even Los Angeles is too crowded for me and my husband. I hate feeling like people are living on top of one another. Traffic, crowds, etc are just not for me.
Phoenix is a city, but is spread out. The lower density of people per square mile is a good thing to me. To each their own, but I still don't see how 66,000 people per square mile is a good thing lol
Uh, what makes you think it's dead? Maybe it's dead for you if you live in Queen Creek but someone like myself who lives in Houston and is shopping for homes in desirable area of Phoenix, the houses have not gone down and the competition is still as fierce. I would love if the valley was dead like you say. The areas I'm interested are N. Scottsdale, Chandler, Gilbert, Ahwautukee and the Arcadia section of Phoenix. None of those areas are dead at all
I love the idea of living and buying in the valley. I am buying in Surprise, a very up and coming area of the valley. At the same time this market has taken a nosedive. The same has happened in most parts of the nation. For the past two quarters our builder has reduced prices of homes, and I hope they do it a few more times before I close on the home. Maybe there is a part of the valley that has increased in value in the past few months. Anyone living in North Scottsdale, Chandler, Gilbert, Ahwautukee, and the Arcadia section of Phoenix selling your homes and having no problem getting the amount that you want? Are they having bidding war's on your home that is for sale in those area's or any area's of the valley? Prove me wrong here, but I think that the market has slowed down. I don't think that anyone is going to get the same that they would have a year ago. That isn't bad though, just part of the Real Estate markets normal up and down swings. A year ago I bet you couldn't hold onto your home for a month without it selling. Today I bet it doesn't sell for 3 to 6 months and only after you have given the buyer what they want. This is just a normal cycle within the market and nothing more. Eventually things will change and the good times in real estate will return.
I love the idea of living and buying in the valley. I am buying in Surprise, a very up and coming area of the valley. At the same time this market has taken a nosedive. The same has happened in most parts of the nation. For the past two quarters our builder has reduced prices of homes, and I hope they do it a few more times before I close on the home. Maybe there is a part of the valley that has increased in value in the past few months. Anyone living in North Scottsdale, Chandler, Gilbert, Ahwautukee, and the Arcadia section of Phoenix selling your homes and having no problem getting the amount that you want? Are they having bidding war's on your home that is for sale in those area's or any area's of the valley? Prove me wrong here, but I think that the market has slowed down. I don't think that anyone is going to get the same that they would have a year ago. That isn't bad though, just part of the Real Estate markets normal up and down swings. A year ago I bet you couldn't hold onto your home for a month without it selling. Today I bet it doesn't sell for 3 to 6 months and only after you have given the buyer what they want. This is just a normal cycle within the market and nothing more. Eventually things will change and the good times in real estate will return.
The price breaks and deals you talk about are mostly in overbuilt fringe areas and almost exclusively on new builds. Established areas and resales are not coming down, because there is a standoff with buyers and sellers. A lot of sellers won't cut prices because they can't. Many moves are voluntary - trying to get a bigger house, difference neighborhood and sellers can be patient or simply change their plans. New home builders are playing with share holders' money and have more leeway, but also staff salaries and other costs to meet.
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