SRP's proposed rate hike for new solar customers (lease, loans)

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by jimj

Well add to that the fact that lenders such as FHA will no longer lend on homes that have a solar lease in place when being purchased.

All this is certainly going to put a crimp in the consumer solar market.

Hud changed their minds - they will do loans with leased systems again..

UPDATE to FHA & Insuring Homes with Leased Solar Panels

[jimj]

Originally Posted by Zippyman

Hud changed their minds - they will do loans with leased systems again..

UPDATE to FHA & Insuring Homes with Leased Solar Panels

Thank you for the update although it seems it is still in the "draft" stage?

[hikernut]

Originally Posted by Zippyman

You don't need to unplug from the grid, just reduce the amount of power being used. Even a 2-3 kw system would offset most of the power used by your hvac system & would fit on top of a lot of patio covers without much fuss.

Agreed. For the time being I think very few urban/suburban households would be willing to go completely off-grid. Investing in smaller systems makes a lot of sense to me.. it will lower usage without the mess and expense of net metering. At least in principal, this is no different than investing in things like insulation, LED lighting, etc. One is spending money up front in order to reduce usage over a number of years.

hikernut

[hikernut]

Originally Posted by Potential_Landlord

At some point solar becomes more of a problem as the power generation falls faster in the afternoon than demand. So you would have to idle nat gas plants during the day and bring them on line just between 5pm and 7pm. The more solar power the bigger the mismatch problem. That is unless we come up with cheap power storage.

True, the peaking problem is nasty. I can think of a few things that could be done to help mitigate the problem...

(1) Observe Daylight Savings Time like the rest of the country does. Cost: zero.

(2) Encourage people who are installing solar to favor western exposure whenever possible. Mabye this is already being done?

(3) Develop residential HVAC systems that make ice. I know this is done at times with commercial HVAC, but I honestly don't know if it's practical for residential. The idea is straightforward... one could be making an excess of ice with PV during the day, which could then be used for cooling after the sun goes down. Given enough capacity one could even go all night long without using any grid power, but even just enough ice to make it through the peak evening hours would be helpful. This is just a different form of energy storage.

hikernut

[Juram]

Originally Posted by jimj

Well add to that the fact that lenders such as FHA will no longer lend on homes that have a solar lease in place when being purchased.

All this is certainly going to put a crimp in the consumer solar market.

As the price gets down to around $2 a watt, leases will basically become irrelevant. At $2 a watt you can purchase a 10,000 watt system that offsets about $2,100-2,300 a year worth of electricity costs for $20,000, minus the 30% tax credit and now you're down to $14,000, meaning even if electricity doesn't increase a penny, your ROI would still be under 7 years. With a lifespan of 30+ years on the panels and around 15 years on inverters, it becomes a far more palatable choice than a few years back when you were talking $5 or $6 a watt, even with the rebates you were still ultimately paying $30,000-40,000 for a similar system.



Various analysts are predicting that by 2016, 2017, we'll have grid parity with solar in most of the states in the U.S. So its not nearly the exorbitant pipedream that it once seemed just 5 or 6 years ago. I was expecting 2020, 2025 but its come a long way and the leases have played a major role but they are definitely on the decline.

[Juram]

Originally Posted by hikernut

(2) Encourage people who are installing solar to favor western exposure whenever possible. Mabye this is already being done?

No, that wouldn't make sense if the point is to produce the maximum amount of power possible. I doubt anyone would willingly pay full price for a less than ideal performing system if they can help it.

[hikernut]

Originally Posted by Juram

No, that wouldn't make sense if the point is to produce the maximum amount of power possible. I doubt anyone would willingly pay full price for a less than ideal performing system if they can help it.

If you toss time-of-use plans into the mix, it is possible that the maximum savings orientation is different than the maximum energy orientation. I don't know the answer, but those plans make the analysis more complicated.

hikernut

[cactusland]

Originally Posted by hikernut

(1) Observe Daylight Savings Time like the rest of the country does. Cost: zero.

Aaaaaaaaaaand you lost me. Absolutely not. Daylight Savings Time is terrible. Don't bring that crap here.

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by cactusland

Aaaaaaaaaaand you lost me. Absolutely not. Daylight Savings Time is terrible. Don't bring that crap here.

Lol..

Nope, nope, nope and no-way-in-my-lifetime!

I'm not inclined to picket & protest, but I'd fight any attempt to bring daylight savings time here like a rabid raccoon on red-bull.

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by Juram

As the price gets down to around $2 a watt, leases will basically become irrelevant. At $2 a watt you can purchase a 10,000 watt system that offsets about $2,100-2,300 a year worth of electricity costs for $20,000, minus the 30% tax credit and now you're down to $14,000, meaning even if electricity doesn't increase a penny, your ROI would still be under 7 years. With a lifespan of 30+ years on the panels and around 15 years on inverters, it becomes a far more palatable choice than a few years back when you were talking $5 or $6 a watt, even with the rebates you were still ultimately paying $30,000-40,000 for a similar system.



Various analysts are predicting that by 2016, 2017, we'll have grid parity with solar in most of the states in the U.S. So its not nearly the exorbitant pipedream that it once seemed just 5 or 6 years ago. I was expecting 2020, 2025 but its come a long way and the leases have played a major role but they are definitely on the decline.

You're close, but still reaching a bit - a huge number of homes here have the wrong roofline for a 10,000 watt system, but 3,000 watts may well still fit well on a patio cover. A $6k investment that saves $100/mo is compelling right now, without needing any "welfare" from your neighbors. Combine that with a less-painful permitting process for D.I.Y systems & I'd have all my Saturdays booked through January installing five systems myself.

When you look at ways of getting momentum going, you need a boatload of small systems to really build volume (and lower costs).. we already have lots of existing/smaller homes (even townhomes & mobiles on land) that could benefit greatly from an "inexpensive" solar setup.

The mantra to date has always been "tighten the place up, increase efficiency & *then* look at solar".. which, kinda like dieting, doesn't really work that well.. If you change the order of things, you'ld have homeowners buying the solar setup in order to save "$xxx per month".. and their next logical step would be.. "that was awesome, I *like* saving $xxx per month, but how close to zero can I get my utility bill?".. then people start looking *really* hard at cheaper ways to heat their water, properly sizing their a/c units, insulating & sealing, led & florescent lights, etc..