U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Arizona > Phoenix area
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
 
 
Old 01-09-2008, 07:22 PM
 
Location: Phoenix/Tempe, Arizona
128 posts, read 19,970 times
Reputation: 45

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by irwin View Post
Well, population growth can certainly lead to economic and business opportunities, but many of those opportunities are not necessarily in desirable, high paying careers. Look at the majority of jobs in Phoenix as evidence of that; real estate, construction, and other service industries.

Many established cities, where population growth is slim to none, have extremely educated established workforces and a base of industries and careers that are much more desirable. Boston is perfect evidence of this; high paying fields like finance, law, business consulting, and IT development.

As far as Detroit...can't say anything about the city personally. I have only visited there briefly. I do know that the economy in Michigan has been fairly poor for some time. But, the smaller towns around Detroit itself seemed very nice and quaint. Personally, I would take that over the stucco on steroids they mass produce in Phoenix. But, to each his own.
Maybe we don't quite have the "Boston" type of economy, yet. But give us another decade. Phoenix is changing, and in a sort time, the post WWII Phoenix is going to have morphed into more than just a upscale retail heaven/golf crazy retired residents of other cities.

 
Old 01-09-2008, 07:30 PM
 
186 posts, read 373,748 times
Reputation: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by desert student View Post
Actually.....you are wrong.

But good effort!

People do pay attention to places that are growing. If a places isn't growing in population, like Detroit and Chicago, that tends to be seen as a negative, and makes people wonder why. With growth comes buisness opportunity and with places in the Phoenix metro with 200%! growth ratios in the past few years, it does show a very significant shift in how the public views it and its importance to the region. You must have forgotten about California and how it can be substituted in this situation. Such an easy state to forget I know.
Actually, Steve-o is right. Just because numbers show a decline in a city doesn't mean it's negative. Columbus Ohio actually had more moves out of the city than in for 2007 but the job market, economic growth and housing have been expanding big time. I lived in Phoenix from 2001-2007 and find that C-Bus is exploding with growth. I came here thinking it would be easy to find a house in a so called buyers market, hah, that was a joke. All of the homes I wanted to put an offer on had quickly already been taken. It was a joke trying to find a house.
 
Old 01-09-2008, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Michigan
937 posts, read 1,928,600 times
Reputation: 398
Detroit vs Phoenix? Is that a joke?

Once you visit both cities, the choice is simple. Detroit is an utter dump. Its filthy, the weather sucks, crime is HORRIBLE and the economy is in the toilet. Phoenix looks like Beverly Hills in comparison. Phoenix has the jobs, the money and looks much better.
 
Old 01-09-2008, 08:02 PM
 
453 posts, read 1,066,471 times
Reputation: 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by desert student View Post
Well I'm glad that many people care soooo much about the sq miles of their city and its skyline. I know that is the first thing people care about when they move to a new location. Funny, but last time I checked Phoenix was the fastest growing city and metro in the nation and Detriot was close to last. Hmmm, no that is odd isn't it?

NPR : Detroit Poverty Getting Worse

Detroit Listed as Nation's Most Dangerous City

Nice!
Everything is cyclical. Remember that in 20 years when, as I said before, the southwest is dying of thirst, the cost of living has become prohibitive for the average middle-class wage earner to live there, the big employers have left town for the next cheap boomtown, and growth (the cornerstone of Phoenix's economy) has stagnated. Beware the looming recession, and the impending fallout in the growth and construction industries- times are tough now in Detroit, but they'll get tough in Phoenix, too, soon enough.

I sort of got off topic there in this post. But I do feel the urge to chime in here. First of all, let me say that Detroit is and will always be my home. It's my hometown, my roots are there, I love it and always will. Now having said that, Detroit (the city proper, that is), has some very serious problems. It's very likely the least livable large city in this country. I lived in Phoenix, too, for a time, and most people on this forum know how I feel about Phoenix. Truth be told, I feel fortunate to have escaped from both places, but I like Detroit better for many reasons.

So first, the bad about Detroit:the crime rate, first of all, is high, no news there (but getting better, in fact); read this: Detroit's violent crime falls (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080108/METRO/801080366/-1/ARCHIVE - broken link)

In certain parts of the city, even waste removal, sewage, and basic utilities aren't reliable. It's blighted, there is a problem with empty lots which have become public dumps, waste, vacant decaying buildings, gangs, and drugs. The schools are terrible, the police, mayor, and city council are horribly corrupt. The economy is in shambles, and unempoyment is very high right now with the struggles of the auto companies trickling down to suppliers, retail stores, restaurants, and everything else. The whole area is pretty depressed right now. It's very segregated- about 90% of the population within city limits is black. I thought that aspect of it- the segregation, that is- was just incredibly sad.

Now, having said all of that, I will attest to the fact that downtown Detroit, away from the worst neighborhoods, is pretty fun and funky, if you know where to go. Greektown alone is infinitely cooler and more interesting than anything Phoenix has to offer. And of course, there's Windsor, a great time if you're young. If you want great restaurants, culture, nightlife, downtown Detroit has it all over Phoenix- and actually, for a big city, Detroit really doesn't compare too well in that regard to other big cities, like Chicago- which again shows you how terribly pathetic downtown Phoenix is. Billings, Montana is a good comparison. Heck, Des Moines, Iowa has a more interesting downtown than Phoenix.

The truth about Detroit is that the city itself is only about 800,000 or so in population. The entire metro area has a population of about 6,000,000, and northern Oakland and Macomb Counties have some fabulous communities to live in. Great schools, great recreation opportunities, some very nice places to live all around. And of course, there's Ann Arbor, ranked as one of the best small cities in the country to live in year after year. In fact, I would say that Birmingham, Royal Oak, and Ann Arbor are all far nicer, more interesting and fun comunities to live in than anywhere in metro Phoenix. The people in southeastern MI are wonderful, so much nicer, smarter, and classier than those I met in Phoenix.

And weather- well, Detroit had miserable winters, but like mom always said, you can always put on another layer of clothes, go outside and be active, and you're fine. Cold never bothered me. It was more the lack of sun, which is why I like the winter in CO so much better. In Phoenix, you're shut inside the a/c for 6 months, unless you're a reptile. I couldn't stand it. And you know what? Winters were hardly balmy in Phoenix, not by any means, and not nearly nice enough IMO to make up for the miserable heat of the summers. Winter in Phoenix isn't truthfully that much nicer than winter in Denver. It snows here occasionally, and the temps at night in Denver are colder, but daytime conditions are often pretty comparable. Detroit's summers were beautiful- and not starting in June, by the way, as one poster said. May and September in MI are absolute heaven. And don't get me going on northern MI- just gorgeous, and so much to see & do. It's a great state, and it'll be back- trust me. AZ's having their boom now, but it won't last forever. Everything's cyclical.
 
Old 01-09-2008, 08:55 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,157 posts, read 26,682,243 times
Reputation: 3668
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve22 View Post
And weather- well, Detroit had miserable winters, but like mom always said, you can always put on another layer of clothes, go outside and be active, and you're fine. Cold never bothered me. It was more the lack of sun, which is why I like the winter in CO so much better. In Phoenix, you're shut inside the a/c for 6 months, unless you're a reptile. I couldn't stand it. And you know what? Winters were hardly balmy in Phoenix, not by any means, and not nearly nice enough IMO to make up for the miserable heat of the summers. Winter in Phoenix isn't truthfully that much nicer than winter in Denver. It snows here occasionally, and the temps at night in Denver are colder, but daytime conditions are often pretty comparable. Detroit's summers were beautiful- and not starting in June, by the way, as one poster said. May and September in MI are absolute heaven. And don't get me going on northern MI- just gorgeous, and so much to see & do. It's a great state, and it'll be back- trust me. AZ's having their boom now, but it won't last forever. Everything's cyclical.
The typical daytime high for Phoenix in January is 65F------Denver try about 43F

Night time lows: Phx (41F), Denver (15F)

Phoenix weather

Denver weather

20+ degrees is a big difference.
 
Old 01-09-2008, 08:57 PM
 
Location: Phoenix/Tempe, Arizona
128 posts, read 19,970 times
Reputation: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by tscrilla View Post
Actually, Steve-o is right. Just because numbers show a decline in a city doesn't mean it's negative. Columbus Ohio actually had more moves out of the city than in for 2007 but the job market, economic growth and housing have been expanding big time. I lived in Phoenix from 2001-2007 and find that C-Bus is exploding with growth. I came here thinking it would be easy to find a house in a so called buyers market, hah, that was a joke. All of the homes I wanted to put an offer on had quickly already been taken. It was a joke trying to find a house.
I don't understand your post, so I'm not sure how to reply in any complete manner. There is NO way you can have job growth in a city, without an adequate population that meets or exceeds the demand for that kind of economic output. Maybe not in the same fiscal year of the city, but in the next decade there would have to be one. In the case with Phoenix, we see that a population boom far exceeds that of an economic one. But this scenario can happen. Not the other way around! Yes, Columbus may have seen a decrease in the population of the city. But I bet you anything that the metro gained. This clearly shows that the city itself has issues, that in the end, make the suburbs more enticing than the city. In Detoit's case they suffer from both a population decline, and also from the fact that they are not attracting people(well at least individuals that turn out to be economic cornerstones) into their city. This is VERY evident. Have you taken a stroll through the city in the past few years!? Take any city that is loosing populations and they all have big problems and negatives, but I bet you anything that the metro gained. "Just because numbers show a decline in a city doesn't mean it's a negative." WHAT? Yes it does! Not only does it show that people have problems living there, it also further compounds the problem when the city services price tag exceeds that of the tax money of previous prosperous years. HMMM! Maybe that is why Detroit is sooo heavily taxed! The citizens now have to pay for services that where once kept up by a much larger, and stronger base. As a result, the residents will only further slip into poverty. Isn't it ironic how San Diego, Phoenix, Seattle, Houston, Dallas, all seem to have issues, but have exploding populations, or at least populations that are remaining steady. Meanwhile other cities, (mainly located in the midwest) are seeing dropoffs. The urban problems that sunbelt cities have(no Seattle is not sunbelt), are are different and frankly, less devastating to their economies, than those suffered by midwest cities. Notice how most up'n coming cities do not have the intense crime, and urban decay that are so common in Chicago, Milwaukee, Detroit, St. Louis, Cleveland,.....see a pattern yet. Heck New York, with a population TRIPLE of Chicago, has a crime rate that is in the lowest percentile of the nations big cities. I think San Diego is the only one that preformed better. I have been to Houston may times, and can tell you that while there is urban decay, it is nothing like the third world condition that make up the west, south, and yes, even the lower north ends of Chicago today.
 
Old 01-09-2008, 09:57 PM
 
Location: 10110001010110100
5,128 posts, read 6,335,881 times
Reputation: 4125
Steve, Detroit's crime rate is declining because for all we know its criminals are coming to Phoenix...
 
Old 01-09-2008, 10:31 PM
 
Location: Popeyes
762 posts, read 1,187,125 times
Reputation: 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts View Post
Detroit vies with 2-3 other cities (St. Louis, New Orleans, and Baltimore) to be the murder capital of the U.S. In 2006 it was #1 and Phoenix was #21. Does that answer your question?

You would base your judgment off of that they suck at the crime rate thing its all garbage. Detroit has some of the nicest suburbs in the U.S. And theres crime in almost all cities. I stayed in Phoenix a little bit (six months) they have some pretty bad places too all cities do.
 
Old 01-09-2008, 11:05 PM
 
Location: Detroit
649 posts, read 1,434,035 times
Reputation: 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent85 View Post
I hate seeing this thread bashing these two places. I've never been to AZ but hear good things about it. Yes Detroit has it's problems with unemployment and crime, but it def. is a funky fun city. I've heard Phoenix has gang problems too. Where else can you see wild trees growing out of skycrapers, and so much urban ruins, but also revitalization? There's so much history in Detroit, and a large collection of beautiful 1920's skycrapers. Sporting news didn't recently name Detroit as the country's best sports city for no reason. Hopefully I'll get down to AZ someday and checkout the sites there.

Nights in DETROIT - a photoset on Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/southen/sets/72057594058185186/ - broken link)
Thanks for the link. I wish I could contribute but I have a lil' Cannon Digital Elph that isn't great for night shots.

I live and work downtown and I can walk the streets at night with no problems. I've never been robbed, stabbed or anything else.
 
Old 01-09-2008, 11:12 PM
 
Location: Detroit
649 posts, read 1,434,035 times
Reputation: 187
I really wish some people in this thread would quit referencing places that are not even in Detroit. UM and MSU are no where near Detroit. And on and on...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 

Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2011 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $89,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Arizona > Phoenix area

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top