Detroit or Phoenix? (Flagstaff: highrise, trip , home)

[steve22]

Originally Posted by ArizonaBear

The typical daytime high for Phoenix in January is 65F------Denver try about 43F

Night time lows: Phx (41F), Denver (15F)

Phoenix weather

Denver weather

20+ degrees is a big difference.

Trust me when I tell you that altitude makes a HUGE difference. When the ambient temp during the daytime in Denver says 43, it actually feels much warmer than that due to the intensity of the sun. I've lived in both places, and believe me the winters in Denver weren't appreciably less pleasant than they were in Phoenix, save for overnight lows and the occasional snowstorm. If you've spent any time in Flagstaff or Salt Lake City in the winter, those places also have winter weather almost identical to Denver's. From a former midwesterner's point of view, I find Rocky Mountain winters very enjoyable and much more pleasant than they were where I grew up. I doubt you'd find too many people who've spent significant time both in Phoenix and in other large cities in the mountain west who'd disagree with the argument that the weather in Denver (or SLC or Flagstaff, for that matter), on an overall basis, is much more tolerable than it is in Phoenix. Plus, you can ski in those cities- big bonus, at least for me.

I love the southwest, but I think Phoenix would be about my last choice of cities to live in in this region of the U.S. And I do think the desert's beautiful. The problem with Phoenix is, there isn't much actual "desert" left anymore. Due to the sprawl and construction, it's become basically just a generic concrete jungle with palm trees. To experience the real desert, you might have to drive an hour or more (depending on where you are) to get to it.

[sweettearose]

Originally Posted by steve22

Trust me when I tell you that altitude makes a HUGE difference. When the ambient temp during the daytime in Denver says 43, it actually feels much warmer than that due to the intensity of the sun. I've lived in both places, and believe me the winters in Denver weren't appreciably less pleasant than they were in Phoenix, save for overnight lows and the occasional snowstorm.have to drive an hour or more (depending on where you are) to get to it.

I think that's just psychological. 43 degrees in Denver feels really cold just like 43 degrees in Phoenix feels cold because of the dry nature of the climate. Dry weather may feel nicer during the summers but it also feels much more cold in the winter. The sunshine has nothing to do with it. You are downplaying Denver's winters considerably. They receive a lot of snowfall. And they do have weather related incidents due to the excessive snow fall. If you are comparing Denver's winters to Chicago and other parts of the midwest, it's pretty nice but you can't compare their winter to Phoenix' winter, it's really so much nicer. My family used to go skiing in Denver during my children's annual Spring Break. That was in mid-March to early April and the weather varied. Some days, Denver would be really cold and get a lot of snowfall. And the on other days, it would be 50-70 degrees during the day, and at night it would be between 40-60 which felt nice. Sometimes, it could get below freezing in March and April though too. I do know that we went skiing in Denver in February because the resorts and lift tickets were a lot cheaper and it was sooooo much colder. There is a reason those tickets were so much cheaper. The skiing conditions were much more harsh and nothing like skiing in Sunrise in Flagstaff in January.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by Brent85

I'm not trying to be rude but what has Phoenix really done for this country? Detroit has influenced America and the world with the automobile, music, and during WII was called the "arsenal of democracy" because hard working Detroiters built the Sherman tanks, planes, jeeps needed to win the war. People kick Detroit now that it's down, but in 1928 before the depression nobody knew such a prosperous city that reached almost 2 million would decline so much. I'm sure Phoenix won't boom forever, at least not with having major problems in the future.

Arizona was, until recently, the largest supplier of cotton in the world. Arizona was, and remains, the largest copper supplier in the world.

Arizona (Phoenix) has been the center of commerece for the Southwest for many years and, they will continue to "boom" -

We are no longer a "steel" country - we are going Hi Tech - and Arizona, because of its access to the Pacific Rim, because of outstanding weather, because of the number of education centers, because of the availabilty of workers and the great quality of life issues, is fast becoming a, if not THE, high tec center of the nation.

Add to this the Defense industry and, well there you go

[irwin]

Originally Posted by Greatday

Arizona was, until recently, the largest supplier of cotton in the world. Arizona was, and remains, the largest copper supplier in the world.

Arizona (Phoenix) has been the center of commerece for the Southwest for many years and, they will continue to "boom" -

We are no longer a "steel" country - we are going Hi Tech - and Arizona, because of its access to the Pacific Rim, because of outstanding weather, because of the number of education centers, because of the availabilty of workers and the great quality of life issues, is fast becoming a, if not THE, high tec center of the nation.

Add to this the Defense industry and, well there you go

"The" high tech center of the of the nation?!? Give me a break.

Phoenix is a place for satellite offices of IT companies (Intel, Google, etc). The headquarters, and thus top innovators, are centered in the traditional tech hot spots like Silicon Valley, Seattle, and Boston...among other places. Arizona simply doesn't have the education assets to support such offices.

[Steve-o]

Originally Posted by sweettearose

There is a reason those tickets were so much cheaper. The skiing conditions were much more harsh and nothing like skiing in Sunrise in Flagstaff in January.

Flagstaff is colder than Denver on average. And besides, skiiing in CO is vastly better than AZ.

[blisterpeanuts]

Originally Posted by irwin

"The" high tech center of the of the nation?!? Give me a break.

Phoenix is a place for satellite offices of IT companies (Intel, Google, etc). The headquarters, and thus top innovators, are centered in the traditional tech hot spots like Silicon Valley, Seattle, and Boston...among other places. Arizona simply doesn't have the education assets to support such offices.

Silicon Valley and Boston have priced themselves out of the market. Highly qualified engineers, scientists, physicians, scholars, etc. are refusing jobs there because when they run the numbers their quality of life will be better in a place like Phoenix. This has been the case for 8-10 years.

And there are a lot of major plants in Phoenix--they don't seem like satellite offices to me--Honeywell, Rockwell, AIG, Intel, Raytheon--these are the biggest names in U.S. industry and they are expanding here, not in their home bases which are prohibitively expensive land-wise and people-wise.

[steve22]

Originally Posted by sweettearose

I think that's just psychological. 43 degrees in Denver feels really cold just like 43 degrees in Phoenix feels cold because of the dry nature of the climate. Dry weather may feel nicer during the summers but it also feels much more cold in the winter. The sunshine has nothing to do with it. You are downplaying Denver's winters considerably. They receive a lot of snowfall. And they do have weather related incidents due to the excessive snow fall. If you are comparing Denver's winters to Chicago and other parts of the midwest, it's pretty nice but you can't compare their winter to Phoenix' winter, it's really so much nicer. My family used to go skiing in Denver during my children's annual Spring Break. That was in mid-March to early April and the weather varied. Some days, Denver would be really cold and get a lot of snowfall. And the on other days, it would be 50-70 degrees during the day, and at night it would be between 40-60 which felt nice. Sometimes, it could get below freezing in March and April though too. I do know that we went skiing in Denver in February because the resorts and lift tickets were a lot cheaper and it was sooooo much colder. There is a reason those tickets were so much cheaper. The skiing conditions were much more harsh and nothing like skiing in Sunrise in Flagstaff in January.

Um, I'm pretty sure that you weren't skiing in Denver. You were probably skiing in one of the Summit County resorts, which are about 65 miles west of Denver, at considerably higher altitude, where it's generally considerably colder and considerably snowier. The temps in Denver itself are not the same as they are up in the actual mountains, or anything close to it. The mountain shadow effect really plays a big role in Denver's weather, and if the system is coming from the west, usually the big dumps happen in the high country west of the actual city. Denver itself may get a few big dumps in a typical winter, but for the most part they don't get much sustained accumulation compared to the snow belt cities of the midwest. And it is usually fairly mild in the city during the daytime, although it varies.

I can tell you that I generally ski about 30 days a year, and at times, you're right, it can be cold in Jan. and Feb. on the slopes. But I've also been out many days during the winter months when it's been bright, sunny, 50 degrees and people are skiing in vests or sweaters. I wouldn't judge what it's always like in the mountains or in Denver based on one trip. I've lived for lengthy periods of time in both Colorado and Phoenix, so what I say is from my own experience. I'm not making this up or downplaying anything, I have no reason to. Here's how it basically breaks down for me:

Denver: 6 months of near-perfect weather, 3 months of pretty hot (but not unbearable) weather, and 3 months of cool, sometimes cold but usually sunny jacket and jeans weather.

Phoenix: 6 months of unbearable weather, 3 months of near-perfect weather, and 3 months of cool and usually (but not always) sunny jacket and jeans weather.

Detroit: 5 months of cloudy, cold, sometimes snowy weather; 4 months of sometimes hot, but usually nice weather; and 3 months when you have absolutely no idea what to expect.

[steve22]

Originally Posted by Steve-o

And besides, skiiing in CO is vastly better than AZ.

Um, yeah, that's an understatement. Given the choice, who in their right minds would choose to ski in Flagstaff or Sunrise over anywhere in CO? Sheesh, I think I'd actually prefer Boyne ( in MI) to any skiing you can do in AZ. And they don't even have real mountains in MI.

[tscrilla]

Originally Posted by steve22

Trust me when I tell you that altitude makes a HUGE difference. When the ambient temp during the daytime in Denver says 43, it actually feels much warmer than that due to the intensity of the sun. I've lived in both places, and believe me the winters in Denver weren't appreciably less pleasant than they were in Phoenix, save for overnight lows and the occasional snowstorm. If you've spent any time in Flagstaff or Salt Lake City in the winter, those places also have winter weather almost identical to Denver's. From a former midwesterner's point of view, I find Rocky Mountain winters very enjoyable and much more pleasant than they were where I grew up. I doubt you'd find too many people who've spent significant time both in Phoenix and in other large cities in the mountain west who'd disagree with the argument that the weather in Denver (or SLC or Flagstaff, for that matter), on an overall basis, is much more tolerable than it is in Phoenix. Plus, you can ski in those cities- big bonus, at least for me.

I love the southwest, but I think Phoenix would be about my last choice of cities to live in in this region of the U.S. And I do think the desert's beautiful. The problem with Phoenix is, there isn't much actual "desert" left anymore. Due to the sprawl and construction, it's become basically just a generic concrete jungle with palm trees. To experience the real desert, you might have to drive an hour or more (depending on where you are) to get to it.

I completely agree! I lived in SLC and Phoenix. Salt Lake is by FAR a much more enjoyable place to live. You still have great weather and unlike Denver where you have to drive to the mountains, SLC is practically built on the mountains. You could be skiing in 30 mins or less depending on where you live.

I remember skiing most of the time with my coat off in my t-shirt. SLC is a hidden paradise.

SLC is one of the best places in the West.

[steve22]

Originally Posted by tscrilla

I completely agree! I lived in SLC and Phoenix. Salt Lake is by FAR a much more enjoyable place to live. You still have great weather and unlike Denver where you have to drive to the mountains, SLC is practically built on the mountains. You could be skiing in 30 mins or less depending on where you live.

I remember skiing most of the time with my coat off in my t-shirt. SLC is a hidden paradise.

SLC is one of the best places in the West.

Absolutely! SLC is a terrific city, without a doubt the still relatively undiscovered jewel of the American west. It has the stigma of the LDS hanging over it, which I think people misinterpret and overreact to. Which is actually a good thing, as it's kept the rampant growth and sprawl plaguing other cities in this part of the country at least somewhat under wraps, up until recently. When I lived in Phoenix, SLC was actually where I used to go quite frequently on weekends to ski. It's just such an easy, quick trip, and it used to only cost about $120 for a round-trip ticket. And, as you pointed out, the Little Cottonwood Canyon resorts are only about 30 min. from the SLC airport- which, by the way, is a thousand times more convenient and easier to navigate than DEN. It was so much cheaper & easier than going to CO for a ski weekend.

And here's another secret: the skiing's better. If I could ski one place every day the rest of my life, I'd choose Alta. Cheap lift tickets, sick terrain, no lift lines, no snowboards, and 500 inches of natural fluffy powder a year. Can't beat that. Snowbird shares the same mountain, & it's magnificent too, but tends to be quite a bit busier since it gets all of the snowboarder traffic that can't go to Alta.