SRP hits solar customers with $50/month fee. APS next? (Phoenix: 2014, loan)

[HX_Guy]

Originally Posted by Zippyman

pretty sure your solar setup was subsidized at a pretty healthy rate by those other non-solar ratepayers. Non-solar customers directly contributed to the slush-fund used to provide your "rebates". And you're still hooked to the grid. It still needs to be maintained. Best of luck to ya going completely off-grid for less than $50 /mo.

What "rebates"?

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

What "rebates"?

Solar rebate program proves too popular for APS - The Prescott Daily Courier - Prescott, Arizona

For several years, rebates on the order of $3 per watt were gifted to solar customers - in addition to no sales tax, state & federal tax credits.

[Potential_Landlord]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

If you have a solar system big enough to cover your usage while the sun is up, then during the day, even though it's on-peak, it may not be much concern. And it's not a concern while off-peak. The time it will be a concern is in the early evening when the solar isn't producing but it's still on-peak (like between 5pm - 7pm). If you can limit your use between those times, then it may be possible to beat them at their own game.

Thinking about it now, the SRP model is actually a lot better for solar customers than what APS wanted to do. With APS, the bigger the system, the more they would charge the customer. How does that makes sense? The bigger the system, the less you rely on the grid.

In a way SRP's plan is justified by the nature of solar peak production vs. peak demand in he grid. There is a gap in the late afternoon when solar production falls faster than demand. So utilities have to essentially produce more than required throughout the day as they cannot regulate power production fast enough and exact enough. Once storage becomes cheap enough this is no longer a problem, of course. Until then we have a problem, Houston. I see the same in Germany or California and the problem becomes exponentially bigger the more solar production you have in the grid. So no wonder the utilities want to curb it- and to some degree they have a point under the current technological constraints. Under the current circumstances I am in favor of delaying solar expansion until the storage constraints are resolved. With domestic nat gas and uranium supply guaranteed for centuries and at low cost we are not in a hurry for massively rising power prices. Let the storage prices come down in the next 10 years and then we can have cheap and efficient solar - storage solutions available and completely change our power supply situation for the better. Or we have a cold fusion breakthrough making it even cheaper. Anyhow, that's how I see it right now.

[HX_Guy]

Originally Posted by Zippyman

Solar rebate program proves too popular for APS - The Prescott Daily Courier - Prescott, Arizona

For several years, rebates on the order of $3 per watt were gifted to solar customers - in addition to no sales tax, state & federal tax credits.

Maybe at one time, but that's been long gone...and those people who got those rebates are the ones that are actually being grandfathered in for 20 years so they are shielded from all these new fees. Its the newer solar owners, who did not get any rebates, who are now going to be seeing all these new fees. I'm hoping I'm going to be grandfathered in to whatever the rate structure is now with APS because I probably would not have gone solar if my bill reduction was only $120/month vs $215/month.

[elcajones]

Originally Posted by PhoenixSomeday

I really don't get the extra charges for solar. Part of the point is to save money (the other part is that it's just smart in a place like the desert, regardless of price). Yet, you get charged more? I don't get it. Doesn't excess generation get fed back into the grid until viable power storage solutions for the home becomes reality? WTH? I've read about the reasons for various fees and charges to solar customers by the power companies, but it smells like enormous piles of BS to me.

I agree that's total BS. They used to offer incentives and from what I have been told by friends with solar panels, they buy back extra electricity from consumers with Solar and everyone ends up benefiting (I'm not totally sure exactly how that works).

This seems entirely counterproductive to the who point of getting them installed.

[Juram]

Originally Posted by elcajones

I agree that's total BS. They used to offer incentives and from what I have been told by friends with solar panels, they buy back extra electricity from consumers with Solar and everyone ends up benefiting (I'm not totally sure exactly how that works).

This seems entirely counterproductive to the who point of getting them installed.

The issue is that the utility companies are generally buying back the power at a rate higher than wholesale rate. SRP was refunding at a rate equivalent to its off-peak rate, still higher than the wholesale right it buys power for, so they were paying more for power produced from solar than other forms, I can understand why there would be a need for some form of cost recovery structure but $50 is just flat-out gauging people. I could understand a fee of $15-20 but essentially they have made an exception solely for people with solar to pay demand charges when in reality, everyone should be paying them since everyone is using the grid.

In anycase, the traditional utility companies are essentially on a ticking clock, as battery technology and efficiency improves, it will become more and more viable to simply disconnect from the grid entirely, much in the fashion with how many have cut the cord with traditional phone companies and are now strictly using cellphones.

[elcajones]

Originally Posted by Juram

The issue is that the utility companies are generally buying back the power at a rate higher than wholesale rate. SRP was refunding at a rate equivalent to its off-peak rate, still higher than the wholesale right it buys power for, so they were paying more for power produced from solar than other forms, I can understand why there would be a need for some form of cost recovery structure but $50 is just flat-out gauging people. I could understand a fee of $15-20 but essentially they have made an exception solely for people with solar to pay demand charges when in reality, everyone should be paying them since everyone is using the grid.

In anycase, the traditional utility companies are essentially on a ticking clock, as battery technology and efficiency improves, it will become more and more viable to simply disconnect from the grid entirely, much in the fashion with how many have cut the cord with traditional phone companies and are now strictly using cellphones.

Well that makes sense. However and that case they need to reform what they pay in buyback/rebate instead of this flat $50 a month charge on customers. Being charged for having solar is a spit in the face. It's all about approach here and they are totally doing it wrong.

[elcajones]

Also,

WE all pay services charges anyway + you know they are getting a mark up on per KW you use. Here's my bill, with their $17 charge. There's that fair fee of $15-20 accounted for and I don't have solar even .

[elcajones]

I have hit rotate so many times and it still wants to be sideways..........

[HX_Guy]

Originally Posted by Juram

The issue is that the utility companies are generally buying back the power at a rate higher than wholesale rate. SRP was refunding at a rate equivalent to its off-peak rate, still higher than the wholesale right it buys power for, so they were paying more for power produced from solar than other forms, I can understand why there would be a need for some form of cost recovery structure but $50 is just flat-out gauging people. I could understand a fee of $15-20 but essentially they have made an exception solely for people with solar to pay demand charges when in reality, everyone should be paying them since everyone is using the grid.

Buying back the power from who? The home solar customers? Maybe that was true long ago, but not at all the case today. Not sure what SRPs buyback rate is, but APS pays out 2.9¢/kWh yet sell it for 9.4¢ on the Standard plan in the winter and as high as 17¢ in the summer. Time of Use is around 6¢ off peak and 19¢ on-peak. So again they are giving diddly squat when they are buying it back.

That is why just about every solar customer isn't even on the net-billing plan, but rather on the net-metering plan, where you "rollover" unused kWh that were overproduced in the previous month to use in the summer months when you need more than you produce.