Phoenix tax hike: $30 billion, 30 year light rail funding (Mesa, Tempe: buy, taxi)

[Ponderosa]

Light rail will never pencil out. The B-C ratio is way below 1.0. It's up to Phoenix voters whether they want to spend money on "frills" like this. They have in the past and probably will this time.

In some ways, the willingness of the public to fund projects and municipal improvements that have a negative economic impact but improve the quality of life is a mark of what makes a city "great". In other ways, I think this is just an incredible waste of money that could be put to more practical purposes. Either way, I have no say. I don't live in Phoenix.

[Pink Jazz]

Hopefully this vote can make my dream light rail system (discussed in another thread I made) become a reality. However, since this is only for City of Phoenix residents, it probably only concerns routes that would actually serve Phoenix (my Pink Line idea only serves a small portion of Phoenix in Ahwatukee and otherwise mostly serves Chandler, Gilbert, and East Mesa, while my Brown Line idea only touches the Phoenix border in north Scottsdale and otherwise serves Scottsdale, Tempe, and Chandler).

[ajonesaz]

Originally Posted by Pink Jazz

Hopefully this vote can make my dream light rail system (discussed in another thread I made) become a reality. However, since this is only for City of Phoenix residents, it probably only concerns routes that would actually serve Phoenix (my Pink Line idea only serves a small portion of Phoenix in Ahwatukee and otherwise mostly serves Chandler, Gilbert, and East Mesa, while my Brown Line idea only touches the Phoenix border in north Scottsdale and otherwise serves Scottsdale, Tempe, and Chandler).

It would be nice if they went towards UOP Stadium with the light rail. The only time I take it is when I go to the Baseball games and its awesome not having to deal with traffic. All the big events are landing at UOP Stadium so it would be a huge plus.

I don't think Gilbert would get much use out of light rail. I see most of the buses going around empty here. Maybe to downtown gilbert, but not much past that.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by ajonesaz

It would be nice if they went towards UOP Stadium with the light rail. The only time I take it is when I go to the Baseball games and its awesome not having to deal with traffic. All the big events are landing at UOP Stadium so it would be a huge plus.

I don't think Gilbert would get much use out of light rail. I see most of the buses going around empty here. Maybe to downtown gilbert, but not much past that.

Glendale was trying to get it to go to downtown Glendale instead of UOP. That was the original plan but others wanted UoP. I don't know how that got resolved but it is years and years away. By then, UoP will be obsolete and the gov will be reaching into our pockets for a handout to the billionaires to build a new one. So it goes...

[kent_moore]

I hope the fund also includes the cost of covering the path walk.

[exit2lef]

When it comes to Glendale, the current planing process is leaning toward a line that would branch off from the existing line at 19th Ave / Camelback. It would then head west through the Alhambra neighborhood of Phoenix before heading north along 43rd Ave, 51st Ave, or Grand Ave into Downtown Glendale. I fully support such a project, but I have misgivings about a possible second phase being discussed that would extend it farther west to the sports sprawl of Westgate. I understand that people enjoy taking the train to basketball and baseball games, but the venues for those teams are located Downtown. The same trains that take people to Suns and Diamondbacks games also take many people to work and school every day, so the current light rail line does not have the exclusive purpose of serving sports fans.

A line to Westgate on the other hand, would not serve nearly as many destinations. It would be packed during Cardinals home games (few than a dozen a year I believe) and also do well during Coyotes games and major concerts at the arena. At other times, it wouldn't carry nearly as many passengers. Even worse, in the event of a team relocation or players strike, we'd have a train to an empty destination. Finally, by the time any line to Westgate is built, it will be nearly time to replace the current venues, and the next ones may not be located in the same part of town.

If Glendale wants to extend light rail past its Downtown, it should consider heading north along 59th Avenue, which has established destinations such as Glendale Community College, Banner Hospital, Honeywell, and Midwestern University. Those are more likely to endure as trip generators than fickle sports franchises. In any case, none of the Glendale / Westgate discussion should affect how Phoenix residents vote in August. The question the city council voted to put on the ballot concerns only what will happen within Phoenix city limits. Glendale will have to make its own decisions about light rail routes and funding within its borders.

[Ztonyg]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

When it comes to Glendale, the current planing process is leaning toward a line that would branch off from the existing line at 19th Ave / Camelback. It would then head west through the Alhambra neighborhood of Phoenix before heading north along 43rd Ave, 51st Ave, or Grand Ave into Downtown Glendale. I fully support such a project, but I have misgivings about a possible second phase being discussed that would extend it farther west to the sports sprawl of Westgate. I understand that people enjoy taking the train to basketball and baseball games, but the venues for those teams are located Downtown. The same trains that take people to Suns and Diamondbacks games also take many people to work and school every day, so the current light rail line does not have the exclusive purpose of serving sports fans.

A line to Westgate on the other hand, would not serve nearly as many destinations. It would be packed during Cardinals home games (few than a dozen a year I believe) and also do well during Coyotes games and major concerts at the arena. At other times, it wouldn't carry nearly as many passengers. Even worse, in the event of a team relocation or players strike, we'd have a train to an empty destination. Finally, by the time any line to Westgate is built, it will be nearly time to replace the current venues, and the next ones may not be located in the same part of town.

If Glendale wants to extend light rail past its Downtown, it should consider heading north along 59th Avenue, which has established destinations such as Glendale Community College, Banner Hospital, Honeywell, and Midwestern University. Those are more likely to endure as trip generators than fickle sports franchises. In any case, none of the Glendale / Westgate discussion should affect how Phoenix residents vote in August. The question the city council voted to put on the ballot concerns only what will happen within Phoenix city limits. Glendale will have to make its own decisions about light rail routes and funding within its borders.

I agree wholeheartedly.

I think a BRT line (similar to the Main Street Link in the East Valley) along Glendale Ave (from 19th Ave to Westgate) would sufficiently serve Westgate.

I hope this plan passes. This will go a long way into transforming Phoenix from a low-density sprawling area into a much more urban area.

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by ajonesaz

I don't think Gilbert would get much use out of light rail. I see most of the buses going around empty here. Maybe to downtown gilbert, but not much past that.

Well, note that light rail can stimulate ridership compared to buses, especially if it is more frequent and faster. Chandler Boulevard/Williams Field Road has been proposed in the past as either a light rail or high capacity transit corridor, so it cannot be ruled out completely.

I think my Pink Line idea could actually be quite popular with mall shoppers since it would connect three malls (Chandler Fashion Center, SanTan Village, and Superstition Springs Center).

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by Ztonyg

I agree wholeheartedly.

I think a BRT line (similar to the Main Street Link in the East Valley) along Glendale Ave (from 19th Ave to Westgate) would sufficiently serve Westgate.

I hope this plan passes. This will go a long way into transforming Phoenix from a low-density sprawling area into a much more urban area.

I think it will still be a sprawling area - but one with a very pricey public transit option. Keep in mind too, that the taxes to be collected will only go to improvements in the city of Phoenix. Any other cities would also have to tax their residents and most are not nearly as liberal when it comes to things such as this as is Phoenix.

[Pink Jazz]

My idea of a line that would serve Westgate would be based on the proposed Capitol Extension branch, extended further west and north to Westgate. This line would be known as the Blue Line in my dream system. Meanwhile, I would have another line to serve Downtown Glendale that would start at Arrowhead Towne Center would go via Bell Road, 59th Avenue, and Glendale Avenue (full route posted in another thread), and would be known as the Orange Line.