Phoenix tax hike: $30 billion, 30 year light rail funding

[tijlover]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Light rail will never pencil out. The B-C ratio is way below 1.0. It's up to Phoenix voters whether they want to spend money on "frills" like this. They have in the past and probably will this time.

Perhaps I have my statistics wrong, but I read one time that 60% of those that move to AZ hail from the Upper Midwest, and I also read once, in 1996, before I left Phoenix, there were over 400,000 in Phoenix with Chicago roots, leading one journalist to describe Phoenix as the New Chicago.

Spending money on these kind of "frills"? Well, perhaps it's the tax-and-spend Chicago transplants that may have something to do with this? All it would take now is for a Daley to relocate from "Daley-ville" and have a Mayor Daley in Phoenix!

[tijlover]

Originally Posted by stevek64

It's a waste-o-rama in my book. Based on the figures I've seen, it benefits a small amount of people on the back of the majority of taxpayers who don't use it.

So please, since you don't mind spending your tax dollars on what sounds like lots of money to move very few people, feel free to pay my share too, ok?

As the video discusses, at the very least, I hope they install barriers/up enforcement to get people to pay beyond the honor system:

Light Rail: The real cost for taxpayers - FOX 13 News

I wasn't aware they use the honor system to collect fares for the most part.

Free Prius anyone?

"If this new sales tax is approved, it would raise $17.5 billion. For that amount of money, you could easily buy a brand new Toyota Prius for every household in Phoenix."

Kind of puts it all in perspective the cost of this thing.

Let me guess! You're a personal injury/DUI attorney or a police officer? An owner of a pain clinic or chiropractic clinic? You're owner of an auto-body repair business, a rehab unit, a home care industry, gas station, auto dealership, you provide bail bonds?

Someone who's been left disabled due to an auto accident, someone who's had one too many traffic fines or DUI's will say: Take that Prius and shove it!

AARP has done studies, as our population continues to age, seniors want to be as car-free as possible! What a better place to invest in light rail than Phoenix!!!

[tijlover]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Many parts of Phoenix on the initial light rail line are in the same dilapidated shape (or worse) since the service began nearly seven years ago. West Camelback: lots of old abandoned buildings and vacant lots. North Central Avenue: no new development, and is still pretty dull at night. The Washington/Jefferson corridor east of downtown: still predominantly an unattractive industrial area and seedy businesses. Only downtown has seen a noticeable improvement with light rail. Otherwise, the idea that it sparks development is untrue because I have seen little or no evidence of it.

The hidden dream, I believe, in creating light rail lines, is for "mini-cities" to develop around the rail stops which I've seen riding the rails in Portland and DART in Dallas, and I've seen the development plans for the Green Line extension from Minneapolis to St. Paul. I think it's too early for these developments in Phoenix, but hopefully they shall come, in due time, providing the development plans are not squashed by California-styled Nimby's and antiquated zoning laws.

With all the light rail lines having been built in L.A., it's not surprising that this hasn't developed in the L.A. area due to antiquated zoning laws, dating back to the 1920's, where much of L.A./76% is still zoned for single family homes.

Yes, it's shocking to take the Blue line from downtown L.A. to Long Beach, built 2 decades ago, and not see some density along those rail stops, like Compton and Watts. And, of course, there's the notorious Nimby's in L.A.!

Hopefully that won't happen in Phoenix!

[Java Jolt]

Originally Posted by tijlover

Let me guess! You're a personal injury/DUI attorney or a police officer? An owner of a pain clinic or chiropractic clinic? You're owner of an auto-body repair business, a rehab unit, a home care industry, gas station, auto dealership, you provide bail bonds?

Someone who's been left disabled due to an auto accident, someone who's had one too many traffic fines or DUI's will say: Take that Prius and shove it!

AARP has done studies, as our population continues to age, seniors want to be as car-free as possible! What a better place to invest in light rail than Phoenix!!!

You're right, there is an increase of people wanting to be car-free but the percentage who depend on public transportation is still rather small, most people drive.

This is why we need a comprehensive mass transit system involving a combination of more busses, light rail, and freeways, not just one or the other.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by tijlover

The hidden dream, I believe, in creating light rail lines, is for "mini-cities" to develop around the rail stops which I've seen riding the rails in Portland and DART in Dallas, and I've seen the development plans for the Green Line extension from Minneapolis to St. Paul. I think it's too early for these developments in Phoenix, but hopefully they shall come, in due time, providing the development plans are not squashed by California-styled Nimby's and antiquated zoning laws.

With all the light rail lines having been built in L.A., it's not surprising that this hasn't developed in the L.A. area due to antiquated zoning laws, dating back to the 1920's, where much of L.A./76% is still zoned for single family homes.

Yes, it's shocking to take the Blue line from downtown L.A. to Long Beach, built 2 decades ago, and not see some density along those rail stops, like Compton and Watts. And, of course, there's the notorious Nimby's in L.A.!

Hopefully that won't happen in Phoenix!

It's not too early for any of this to happen in Phoenix considering how light rail has been operating for about seven years. Unfortunately, very little (if anything) has been developed or revitalized on the light rail line. Some parts of downtown have seen a definite upswing in activity, but that started happening before the light rail even opened. Most other areas outside of downtown (specifically west Camelback, and the Washington/Jefferson corridor) are still rather run down. Even the Central Corridor (otherwise known as Midtown) hasn't had any new development ... in fact, I've even seen some businesses in that area fold up recently. There's no evidence that light rail sparks revitalization or new development, which is really a shame because I'd prefer to see infill and upward development in the already established areas instead of so much outward sprawl.