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I'm not sure what prompted Peoria's move towards the 4 day week. Camp Verde schools switched this year. Students are receiving the same in-class time as a 5 day week. Their days are longer. CV made the switch to help control their transportation budget. All I'm hearing from CV staff I know personally is positive. It's too early to see how it's affecting student learning.
What are the chances that the staff is positive because they get another day off? Inquiring minds want to know..
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Originally Posted by chaparrito
Schools are not daycare centers. Their purpose is to educate children and prepare them for adult life. Their very LAST concern should be what parents are "going to do with their kids" on off days.
As a teacher, if I am viewed as a daycare provider, I want babysitter rates please. How much does a 12 year old girl earn babysitting? Five bucks an hour? Works for me. Five bucks an hour from 25 kids for 6 hours is 750 bucks a day. Close to 140K a year. Similar to school superintendents' salaries. Now you're talkin'!!
When I went to UofA and later ASU, the tuition was among the lowest of state schools in the US (Ducey, too, got his education paid by the taxpayers of the time. He is an ASU alum). Now, it is actually cheaper for my kids to go out of state on the WICHE program than to attend in state. I stayed when I was educated contributing my skills and education into making this a better place for all those who came and paying back my tuition many times over in taxes. Will those who go off to Colorado or New Mexico or California for lower costs ever come back to Arizona? Will out of state students and foreign students who contribute so much to the education experience and often stay too, stop coming here? Will our universities continue to shift priorities from undergraduate education to research grants to pay the bills?
Good question and that's what's happening here in Ma with out of state grads. Even though we have some of the best universities in the country we cannot retain the grads here. So even though we have a great education system here the grads are still not staying here.
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Out-of-state students are more likely to return home after graduating to take advantage of deeper networks and stronger job opportunities, Modestino said. Nevertheless, she said, Massachusetts needs to do a better job to retain graduates.
Massachusetts retains only one in five recent graduates who come here from out of state, compared to one in two in California and one in three in New York. Despite perceptions, Boston’s high cost of housing isn’t driving recent graduates away. Only 2 percent of recent grads surveyed by the Fed said they left Massachusetts because of high rents. Forty percent said they left to take a job or look for work.
A real tragedy for the working parents, what are they going to do with their kids on Friday?
Weird. I'm hardly a west valley aficionado--especially the northwest areas--but I always hear Peoria being billed as a comparatively higher area. Is this really going to have a "tragic" effect on families?
It seems obvious to me that many posters did not check out the 120 districts that are on a 4 day week. If they did they would see all positives or no change when it comes to academics. Less absenteeism since kids would hardly ever miss school for an appointment. Lower costs for utilities, transportation, substitutes (teachers also have to take off for appointments with a 5 day week).
The quality of life for families increases with the opportunity for more weekend trips.
Some people would move from Peoria. Others would move to Peoria for the same reason.
Anyone who thinks about what to do with the kids are of the school is daycare mindset. Parents will have to adapt, the same as if their work schedule, work location, marital status, or many other things change. Some may have to change jobs or work a different shift than their spouse. It is doable if people are serious about putting children first.
Not that it affects me in the sense that what I'm going to do with my kids (no kids here)...but what about the city itself overall? They already did a survey and nearly 40% of parents said they would move out of the area to somewhere that had a traditional 5-day school week. Um hello plunging property values, empty shopping centers and hello to a bunch of old people moving in?
Apparently the school district believes it'll save a bunch of money...crap...raise taxes a bit if you need more money. How are you going to save money when a large chunk of your population leaves the city?
Raise taxes a bit? Have you not looked at your property tax bill? My wife works at a school district and the waste is astronomical. It sickens her to see all the waste...they rotate it, one year everyone gets a brand new apple computer, next year they get brand new iphones, next year new computer, next year new phone. At the end of the year they have to spend millions in a huge shopping spree to keep from losing the money.
What needs to happen is that they need to unify all these school districts and get rid of all the overlapping administration costs. Heck, Goodyear has three elementary districts and two high school districts in a city of 60k people. Now multiply that across the valley and the duplicate administrative costs are enormous.
Weird. I'm hardly a west valley aficionado--especially the northwest areas--but I always hear Peoria being billed as a comparatively higher area. Is this really going to have a "tragic" effect on families?
The new parts in the NW are affluent, but overall, Peoria is probably about the same as Glendale in terms of family income. There's quite a bit of lower income stuff closer in.
It's not just about the 4 day week though. This is sort of the end of the thing. For years, schools having been getting squeezed by more enrollment and declining revenues. It is not as if we are retreating from a position of strength. We have been low balling schools for a generation in this state Those who think AZ schools are rolling in the clover need to visit one. They will see broken down buses in the yards because there is no money to fix them, school books that are several revisions out of date held together with duct tape, and not enough of even them to go around. They will find 40 or more kids in math and reading classes - no wonder they do poorly on tests. Science labs have 4 and 5 kids at a station meant for two. Teachers are quitting and subs are teaching full time because we have some of the lowest salaries for teachers in the country and the positions go vacant. And this is in the affluent districts. One can only imagine how the poorer ones are doing.
People considering moving to this state should reconsider if they have school age children. The priority is NOT education. There is no question that AZ schools in the aggregate are among the worst in the country and the bar gets lower every year. Even the charters that Ducey loves got the knife this year. Some will be forced to close the doors - especially the smaller ones in the less affluent areas (charters can take in lots of money from parents under favorable tax exemption laws. Almost all of this money goes to affluent charters). The legislature continues to find money for private prisons and did so again this year. Maybe that is wise. With an uneducated and unsupervised generation of kids coming up, we're gonna need them.
Raise taxes a bit? Have you not looked at your property tax bill? My wife works at a school district and the waste is astronomical. It sickens her to see all the waste...they rotate it, one year everyone gets a brand new apple computer, next year they get brand new iphones, next year new computer, next year new phone. At the end of the year they have to spend millions in a huge shopping spree to keep from losing the money.
What needs to happen is that they need to unify all these school districts and get rid of all the overlapping administration costs. Heck, Goodyear has three elementary districts and two high school districts in a city of 60k people. Now multiply that across the valley and the duplicate administrative costs are enormous.
We had a vote on that. It lost. The affluent schools fear that all the money will go to the poor ones.
Oh, and do tell us. Where is that school where they get new iphones every other year and new computers? I'll bet a lot of new residents would want to move to that district! I say you are just peddling the right wing bs that you hear on talk radio. Anyone with kids in school in the west valley, including around where you live, knows that the kids often don't have textbooks much less iphones.
Last edited by Ponderosa; 03-14-2015 at 11:10 AM..
Of course this is true, and it's been true in most states since the 1980s. Individual states handle the requirements and responsibilities differently. According to the U.S. Department of Education only 3.4% of U.S. students (around 2 million) are currently home-schooled for educational purposes.
I was more interested in the Phoenix area metro enrollment rates of home schooling. My neighbor was specifically referring to the Goodyear school district in referring to many kids enrolling in home schooling. If any one has numbers/experience beyond what my neighbor told me, I'd be interested.
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Originally Posted by Jukesgrrl
At the rate Arizona is going, the state's future is what is hopeless. We will run out of educated people here long before we run out of water.
Welcome to the new reality of the US, not just Arizona/Phoenix.
This is the deeper national trend going on for sometime now. Even in the "throw gobs of money at education states". It's not an Arizona/Phoenix thing and it's far from being all about money though I believe there are interests out there that make it seem like it's the source problem and many seem to believe it. Attitude is a game changer and as a nation, I think frankly we are getting a bit too lazy/complacent on many levels for various reasons and education is one of them and the numbers clearly show that. Though our society has been trained to treat symptoms and not the underlying problems in many things these days so I can understand why many people jump to treating symptoms as the 1st approach.
Story on the ways of money thrown at education vs attitude. I went to college in NY, both public and private, where many would consider that money flows like water to fund schools/colleges via taxes which is what some seem to want here in the Phoenix metro/AZ for our colleges and public schools. When college started in August or September, the parking lots were packed with people starting the semester. I remember having to park on the lawn on this one campus because there were so many cars. Come October/November whenever the midterms were? Like someone turned a switch, class sizes/those parking lots fell to at least half, in some a 1/3. People dropped out and I bet most never came back. And this happened year after year. Attitude. I don't think those kids were dumb/couldn't cut it as I knew several of them. They were just lazy/not ready to apply themselves. Will some come back to college? Sure but most won't given the national college graduation rate. How to fix attitude? Come's from the individual/how they were brought up.....good luck on that "fix" as all the money in the world won't do a thing for that.
I think people, especially many parents, have to look in the mirror before using money as the sole scapegoat as the end all/fix all to problems in my view that they largely created themselves in the upbringing of their own kids.
But I do understand the "advantage" of blaming others for our problems before looking inward.
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Originally Posted by Jukesgrrl
But these kids cannot stay home alone and educate themselves "electronically." Home schooling requires an adult to be at home all day with the child, administering the lessons. So if people can't take time off work to be home with their children one day a week, how could it be an improvement to family life that they have to have an adult at home all day, every day?
I was told by my neighbor the adult(parent) doesn't administer the school lessons...it's an actual instructor online from the school that's doing the teaching. Sounds like you're thinking "old school" home schooling.
Schools are not daycare centers. Their purpose is to educate children and prepare them for adult life. Their very LAST concern should be what parents are "going to do with their kids" on off days.
As a teacher, if I am viewed as a daycare provider, I want babysitter rates please. How much does a 12 year old girl earn babysitting? Five bucks an hour? Works for me. Five bucks an hour from 25 kids for 6 hours is 750 bucks a day. Close to 140K a year. Similar to school superintendents' salaries. Now you're talkin'!!
So well stated!
I feel bad for teachers as I hear the same thing over and over from the one's I know. Perhaps those crying over these "education" cuts should rename these funds "babysitting fees" and actually allow the teachers the power of surrogate parents that their biological parents have failed to take upon themselves. I'm all for the Phoenix metro schools throwing money at this as now we are addressing reality!
We indeed seem to have more than a few parents that want everything.....lots of material things, kids, a nice house, etc. but don't place the main priority on taking care of their own kid(s) which in my view should be the most important priority. You know, crazy things like spending lots of time with them, adjusting their schedule/jobs/looking into things like working at home instead of putting a parent(s) own priorities 1st.
And I know this is a radical/out in left field idea, but perhaps those who value working lots of hours for the priority of collecting material things, or perhaps didn't make the decision to educate themselves and/or can hardly provide/support themselves, should wait/not have kids???? I know, I know....crazy idea!
Lots of selfish/narcissistic parents out there for sure and the kids suffer, as does ultimately our own society right here in the Phoenix metro area and beyond.
I think people, especially many parents, have to look in the mirror before using money as the sole scapegoat as the end all/fix all to problems in my view that they largely created themselves in the upbringing of their own kids.
But I do understand the "advantage" of blaming others for our problems before looking inward.
The people who are complaining the loudest are those who are involved. They have motivated families and see how the cuts are dummying down the quality of education.
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Originally Posted by stevek64
So well stated!
I feel bad for teachers as I hear the same thing over and over from the one's I know. Perhaps those crying over these "education" cuts should rename these funds "babysitting fees" and actually allow the teachers the power of surrogate parents that their biological parents have failed to take upon themselves. I'm all for the Phoenix metro schools throwing money at this as now we are addressing reality!
We indeed seem to have more than a few parents that want everything.....lots of material things, kids, a nice house, etc. but don't place the main priority on taking care of their own kid(s) which in my view should be the most important priority. You know, crazy things like spending lots of time with them, adjusting their schedule/jobs/looking into things like working at home instead of putting a parent(s) own priorities 1st.
And I know this is a radical/out in left field idea, but perhaps those who value working lots of hours for the priority of collecting material things, or perhaps didn't make the decision to educate themselves and/or can hardly provide/support themselves, should wait/not have kids???? I know, I know....crazy idea!
Lots of selfish/narcissistic parents out there for sure and the kids suffer, as does ultimately our own society right here in the Phoenix metro area and beyond.
Steve. We are on the same page. We decided to go with less stuff in order for my wife stay home. She let go a six figure salary back in 1991 (high volume web press printing sales). Her focus was the kids while my focus was to make $$'s. I was heavily involved as well with the kids but not as much. I'm extremely proud of our results. The fiscal penalty for managing the family in this manner was that we didn't have as nice of a garage sale. The upside was we will have well rounded kids who are on their way to becoming high achievers. IMHO, the 2015 caliber Phoenix schools would dummy down their math and science skills. I would not want to put my kids in a district where the teachers with burnt-out and don't feel appreciated. Therefore in this newly gutted Peoria district, I would chose home schooling in this state over public education. Of course there is a risk of having a socially awkward kids but at least they will have an academic edge.
But you are correct. If a family doesn't care, spending $20K per kid adds meaningless benefits.
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I know, I know....crazy idea!
