First electric bill with solar! (rental, mortgage, loans)

[stevek64]

Have to wonder in the coming years if the seemingly ever increasing attempt at "this/that" fee for solar customers will make an investment in solar not worth it for the individual.

APS submits proposal to increase 'grid access charge' from $5 a month to $21 a month - ABC15 Arizona

This is not to debate the use of the grid by solar customers and what is/isn't a fair fee for its use but just looking at the bottom line for potential solar owning homeowner and what may come to pass in the coming years in fees.

I look forward to the day when storage technology advances to the point where tying panels into the grid won't be necessary and true independent power generation will become reality. Perhaps in the meantime keeping panels independent of the grid and using the power company when extra power is needed could be an interim solution though perhaps storage technology isn't up to the task yet for even this.

[HX_Guy]

Originally Posted by stevek64

Have to wonder in the coming years if the seemingly ever increasing attempt at "this/that" fee for solar customers will make an investment in solar not worth it for the individual.

APS submits proposal to increase 'grid access charge' from $5 a month to $21 a month - ABC15 Arizona

The model SPR took is the one that is really crippling the local solar industry, so much so that most have pulled out of SRP territory completely...even giants like SolarCity.

SRP's change was forcing new customers with solar on a demand charge time-of-use plan that no other customer are forced into. With the plan, solar customer get charged a demand charge based on the most kW they used during any 30 minute period during the month. So if it happens that just one day of the month, just just 30 minutes, you had both ACs on and maybe the oven and dishwasher, then you end up with a fee that could be $50 - $125 or even more. Their logic I assume is that they feel they need to have the demand capacity available at all times, even if solar customer's are needing that demand all the time. And while that could make sense...if that's the case, why not have ALL customer's on the demand plan?

APS on the other hand is taking a different route and charging solar customers a flat amount per kW of installed system size. Currently that fee is $0.70 per kW, so if you have a 10kW system, then it's $7.00 per month. They are trying to get an increase to $3.00 per kW, so that same 10kW system would now have a $30.00 per month fee. There are good and bad things about this model. The good is that at least it's predictable, unlike SRP's plan which you more or less have no real control over. With APS, at least you know the fee and the industry can adjust to it. The fee isn't outrageous either, solar will still be a benefit to the homeowner. On the downside though...what happens if I'm on vacation for the whole month and don't use much of any electricity? Or what if I shut off my power while out of town in the winter? Why should I be charged a flat fee when I'm not using the grid at all?

With with SRP though, current customer are grandfathered into the old price structure and like how SRP did, I'm sure APS will also have a cutoff date sometime soon which means there will probably be a rush of people trying to go solar before these new rules take affect.

[WSPHXPELON]

If you generate more power than you use (i.e. winter months or vacation), then APS has to pay YOU for the energy that you uploaded to their grid, right?

[HX_Guy]

That's correct..but they pay you peanuts in comparison to what people pay to buy power from them. 2.9¢ per kWh vs 9.5¢ - 14.5¢ that they charge depending on the plan you're on.

[M.Unit]

Just in case someone is reading through here and thinking about the "lease" option...be aware that once you lease, that company expects the lease to continue regardless of who owns the house. If you're planning on selling then you better hope the person buying wants to take over the lease otherwise you'll need to purchase the system (or pay the company to remove the system if they dont allow you to purchase) in order to get out of the contract.
A good friend of ours is a realtor and has had 3 cases of this happening where potential buyers didnt want the system and the sellers had to continue looking for other buyers or bite the bullet and pay for the system outright.
Maybe some lease companies have realized that's bad PR and have changed that aspect of the contract but up to a year ago it was still the case with many of them.

[HX_Guy]

That is still the case today but I'd be curious...why didn't the new home owners want the leased solar system?

They would rather pay more money for the same thing (electricity)? Because that's essentially what they are doing by staying on APS's grid full time.

[asufan]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

That is still the case today but I'd be curious...why didn't the new home owners want the leased solar system?

They would rather pay more money for the same thing (electricity)? Because that's essentially what they are doing by staying on APS's grid full time.

Many people actually don't buy houses with solar panels because they look ugly.

[wit-nit]

ABC news did an interview with an elderly couple (70's) the other night that was showing their electric bills in the range of $12.50 to $15.50 per month. They were proud of the fact that heir bill was so low. But they went on to say they spent $89,990 for the solar panels and installation. So where is the balance of savings since they will never live long enough to reap their rewards.

[kell490]

I think the real issue is solar is just too expensive if you purchase the ROI is more years then the warranty lot of the savings is based on tax deductions.

[Zathras]

It would be great if solar were a competitive product WITHOUT government subsidies (ie, our grandkids' taxes) paying for a third of it.

I also wonder if the flood of government money that pours into the solar industry to make it even with the other technologies actually works to disincentivize cost reductions that would normally be brought about by natural market forces.