Downtown Phoenix developments, and Roosevelt Row controversy (Tucson, Chandler: 2015, apartment)

[Valley Native]

Roosevelt Row highlights downtown Phoenix's growing pains

Interesting read about the forward progress of downtown. It's a step in the right direction ... however, my complaint is it's mostly low to midrise developments. While this is good for infill projects, the city really should start attracting more than just students and artsy types to the downtown area. Phoenix needs to have a larger corporate presence with competitive jobs & wages.

Along with this, the city needs to grow taller. I realize downtown has height restrictions largely due to the intrusive FAA, but the area north of downtown is out of the FAA zone, and could easily allow 50, 60, and 70 story towers. They don't all have to be office buildings either. It could be a combination of hotel, office, and condo/apartment towers.

[new2colo]

It will be interesting once some dirt is actually turned. I have heard about a couple of the projects for a couple years and there still, to this day, has been little, if any, movement. I am starting to feel like there is a lot of big talk in downtown Phoenix with very little action.

As far as highrise development is concerned, if the demand's not there, there's nothing that developers can do. No one is going to invest in a project that isn't going to make money. If there was demand for more highrise residential or office north of downtown, there would be more highrise residential and office. I fully support more highrise development, but I recognize that is not going to happen in Phoenix. There is just a lot of cheaper land in the suburbs and on the fringe of the metro area that it is prime for development. Plus, people here demand parking. That favors a more low rise, sprawling kind of complex.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by new2colo

As far as highrise development is concerned, if the demand's not there, there's nothing that developers can do. No one is going to invest in a project that isn't going to make money. If there was demand for more highrise residential or office north of downtown, there would be more highrise residential and office. I fully support more highrise development, but I recognize that is not going to happen in Phoenix. There is just a lot of cheaper land in the suburbs and on the fringe of the metro area that it is prime for development. Plus, people here demand parking. That favors a more low rise, sprawling kind of complex.

Well, unfortunately that's true for the most part. But guess what cheap land that is prime for development in the outer suburbs translates to? The need for more freeways! So in that case, ADOT had better get busy and build all those freeways that the voters approved in 2004 since there is a demand for them. IF people really like those long commutes and being in the fringes, more power to them I suppose.

As far as parking, every highrise building has parking facilities ... usually in the form of underground parking, or an adjacent garage, so I really don't see that as an issue. There is a demand for more centralized development now, at least more now than there used to be. The problem is, as you pointed out, land prices are cheaper the further out you go.

[Ponderosa]

I see the Taxpayer Sheraton is going broke and Phoenix residents will have to eat millions of dollars in losses. The Suns can't put a quality product on the floor but want the taxpayers to build them a new arena. There was a brief glimmer of hope, but it looks like the same old, same old when it comes to downtown development. Downtown Phoenix will never be what it never was.

[BIG CATS]

I dont see a need for high rises. Why? Because there's no demand for them that I can see. I have a friend who lives right downtown and he says his 10-story building is hardly even half full.

[yukon]

Oh joy. You're going to look like Dallas West when it's done, and probably have the living prices to match.

Sad.

[new2colo]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Well, unfortunately that's true for the most part. But guess what cheap land that is prime for development in the outer suburbs translates to? The need for more freeways! So in that case, ADOT had better get busy and build all those freeways that the voters approved in 2004 since there is a demand for them. IF people really like those long commutes and being in the fringes, more power to them I suppose.

As far as parking, every highrise building has parking facilities ... usually in the form of underground parking, or an adjacent garage, so I really don't see that as an issue. There is a demand for more centralized development now, at least more now than there used to be. The problem is, as you pointed out, land prices are cheaper the further out you go.

The metro area simply can't afford to keep growing outward. As much as people are used to low density sprawl in all directions, it just isn't sustainable and it isn't that affordable. I read a recent news piece that stated that the desert tortoise might be soon listed as a protected species. If that happens, all developers who want to build in the desert tortoises habitat will have to request variances from US Fish and Wildlife on a case by case basis. That could quickly put a halt to sprawl as we know it. Honestly, it would be good for Phoenix to stop growing outward and focus more on the older areas that developers and residents abandon once a newer, shinier place opens up. There is really nothing to prevent Phoenix from marching westward until in merges with Palm Springs or in any direction until it hits federal land. Unlike your thinking, ADOT doesn't have to build freeways. As we have discussed, ADOT cannot afford to build many more freeways besides the ones that are planned. You think traffic on your little section of the 202 is bad. If Phoenix spreads out another 30 miles in all directions? Oh boy.

Hopefully the desert tortoise ordinance is adopted and there are finally some hard set boundaries in where Phoenix can expand. Who really wants to live in some future subdivision between Tonopah and Quartzsite? I hope that some boundaries will encourage developers to start building up instead of out.

[KurtAZ]

Interesting read...and yeah there should be more residential in the downtown areas. But the problem is, who is going to live there? Students for ASU, Retirees and apparently the artist folks. No family is going to knowingly move into the Phoenix Elementary District and send their kids to these schools. There are plenty of business downtown and if the schools were better, the neighborhoods were nicer...both my wife and I commute 30 miles one way to go to work in this area. I would LOVE to walk or bike to work. When we picked Chandler it was because my office was only 10 miles away and the schools were some of the best in the state. Job change later and wife returning to the workforce now that the kids are in school...bam...we are putting 420 miles a week (cumulative) on the cars (she only works 2 days a week).

I love the idea of infill and revitalizing run down areas of town but from this article...all the Roosevelt Row advocates are saying "We shouldn't have to <insert action here>" while trying to prevent the legal owners of said properties from getting a return on their investment. They took it to the Historical Preservation Board...surprise...the buildings they want to save had no historical significance. Just a run down building that people got irrationally attached to. I drive through this district every day and while there are some really cool areas, I always wonder how/why $500k+ homes are behind what essentially looks like a slum area? I guess the "beauty" of the area escapes me.

[KurtAZ]

Originally Posted by new2colo

I read a recent news piece that stated that the desert tortoise might be soon listed as a protected species. If that happens, all developers who want to build in the desert tortoises habitat will have to request variances from US Fish and Wildlife on a case by case basis. That could quickly put a halt to sprawl as we know it.

Honestly, this is the first time I have heard of people using the Desert Tortoise as a possible reason to halt Metro Phoenix expansion. Their habitat ranges from Northern Mexico up through Nevada. I know that on MCAGCC 29 Palms, CA they are protected and will halt training if a desert tortoise is encountered until it moves on. If we shouldn't be building within its' range I guess we would need to raze Tucson, Phoenix, Prescott, Las Vegas, Blythe and Palm Springs.

[sargeant79]

Originally Posted by yukon

Oh joy. You're going to look like Dallas West when it's done, and probably have the living prices to match.

Sad.

If that means that the Roosevelt district turns into a mini Deep Ellum, I'd be fine with it.