Will Scottsdale Ever Get Onboard With Light Rail? (Phoenix, Mesa: how much, schools)

[Java Jolt]

Originally Posted by Ztonyg

There essentially was a circulator bus between Downtown Scottsdale and Downtown Tempe. It was route 66 and it ran every 30 minutes during the daytime hours. It was cut in 2010 due to the recession.

There is also the 72 that runs fairly frequently (every 20 minutes weekdays and 30 minutes Saturdays although on Sundays it's every 60 minutes) between the two cities' downtowns.

The problem is that buses don't tend to take people out of cars. Light rail and/or streetcars do.

Scottsdale decided it's too good for light rail and probably too cheap to fund it.

People who live, shop, dine, and play there don't want to be taken out of their Ferraris, public transportation is beneath them.

[Ztonyg]

Originally Posted by Java Jolt

Scottsdale decided it's too good for light rail and probably too cheap to fund it.

People who live, shop, dine, and play there don't want to be taken out of their Ferraris, public transportation is beneath them.

In Arizona, maybe, but not everywhere.

I've been to Chicago ,DC, New York, and San Francisco and have ridden public transportation in all 3 places with plenty of people who live, shop, dine, and play just like the Scottsdale crowd. Those people do think a bus that runs infrequently is beneath them, but not a heavy rail or a BRT (with less than 10 minute headways).

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by Ztonyg

In Arizona, maybe, but not everywhere.

I've been to Chicago ,DC, New York, and San Francisco and have ridden public transportation in all 3 places with plenty of people who live, shop, dine, and play just like the Scottsdale crowd. Those people do think a bus that runs infrequently is beneath them, but not a heavy rail or a BRT (with less than 10 minute headways).

They don't have wide open six lane city streets to whisk them to their destination or free parking when they get there. If they did, they would be driving just like the people in Scottsdale do.

[petroglyphin]

Originally Posted by Java Jolt

Scottsdale decided it's too good for light rail and probably too cheap to fund it.

People who live, shop, dine, and play there don't want to be taken out of their Ferraris, public transportation is beneath them.

Please tell me this is sarcasm. Oh please.

[observer53]

Originally Posted by petroglyphin

Please tell me this is sarcasm. Oh please.

For parts of the city, it's quite true. The nearly empty north Scottsdale park and ride will tell you that. In less affluent parts of the city, people use public transportation far more.

[Java Jolt]

Originally Posted by petroglyphin

Please tell me this is sarcasm. Oh please.

No sarcasm intended.

It's true that the wealthier you are the less dependent on public transportation you are.

I'm not implying all of Scottsdale is super wealthy but there are plenty of youngish plastic millionaires who like to live the good life while residing with mom and dad.

Those kinds of people think public transportation is beneath them, they can't expect to make a good fake first impression on a bus or train.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by Java Jolt

No sarcasm intended.

It's true that the wealthier you are the less dependent on public transportation you are.

I'm not implying all of Scottsdale is super wealthy but there are plenty of youngish plastic millionaires who like to live the good life while residing with mom and dad.

Those kinds of people think public transportation is beneath them, they can't expect to make a good fake first impression on a bus or train.

Sorry, but this is untrue ... or at the very least a gross exaggeration. I'll admit that probably fewer people in the upper income bracket have a need to use the bus or light rail system, but light rail doesn't necessarily bring in the "undesirable" crowd. Like I stated before, if Scottsdale really wanted to stop the riff raff from coming in, they could have reduced or eliminated bus service, but they didn't. The fact that Scottsdale is refusing light rail is more of a financial/budget reason than anything else. It's very costly, time consuming, and messy during the construction phase.

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Sorry, but this is untrue ... or at the very least a gross exaggeration. I'll admit that probably fewer people in the upper income bracket have a need to use the bus or light rail system, but light rail doesn't necessarily bring in the "undesirable" crowd. Like I stated before, if Scottsdale really wanted to stop the riff raff from coming in, they could have reduced or eliminated bus service, but they didn't. The fact that Scottsdale is refusing light rail is more of a financial/budget reason than anything else. It's very costly, time consuming, and messy during the construction phase.

So, if this is the case, why is Mesa welcoming it? Mesa is a much more conservative city than Scottsdale; Scottsdale is only moderately conservative.

I admit that I would call myself a conservative (I'm a registered Republican), but I support both highways and public transportation. Interestingly, in my dream light rail system, the Pink Line would serve an area that is mostly politically conservative (most of Chandler and all of Gilbert and east Mesa). I don't think the area would have as much opposition to light rail as Scottsdale.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by Pink Jazz

So, if this is the case, why is Mesa welcoming it? Mesa is a much more conservative city than Scottsdale; Scottsdale is only moderately conservative.

Probably because more people in Mesa are dependent on public transit than in Scottsdale. I don't think it has much to do with politics as much as economics and public demand. Another thing to consider is light rail was already slated to run in Mesa when it was approved by the voters on a county wide basis. What I'm wondering is: did Scottsdale residents actually get a chance to vote on whether or not to allow light rail, or was it the City Council who decided?

[Java Jolt]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Probably because more people in Mesa are dependent on public transit than in Scottsdale. I don't think it has much to do with politics as much as economics and public demand. Another thing to consider is light rail was already slated to run in Mesa when it was approved by the voters on a county wide basis. What I'm wondering is: did Scottsdale residents actually get a chance to vote on whether or not to allow light rail, or was it the City Council who decided?

Mesa has more residents who rely on public transportation than Scottsdale, you hit the nail on the head.

It's all about demand and many people who live, work, shop, dine, and play in Scottsdale have their own modes of transportation or they take cabs because they can afford it, what do they need with busses or light rail trains?

Public transportation is beneath them, they know it and the city of Scottsdale knows it, this is why there are many more cabs and higher-end cars roaming around Scottsdale streets than busses.