Will one year limit for welfare cause Valley migration ? (Kingman: 2015, apartment)

[yukon]

Welfare and disability are not the same thing. Different programs.

[magnum0417]

As someone with a wife with medical issues unable to work herself...I bust my tail to maintain a respectable quality of life for her and I. My full time job is my vacation before spending the rest of my time tending to her medical needs at home which involves her immobility and failing kidneys. When I see HEALTHY individuals taking the easy way out, it strikes a nerve with me. Addictions can be overcome with enough WILL POWER. I had my time of heavy drinking in my youth way before moving to AZ from NY and now the nature of the SW is my drug of choice. We have a Class A Motorhome that is used to transport my wife everywhere so she can still be a part of new memories. Personality flaws are way more environment than heredity in many aspects. MIND OVER MATTER.... I can understand once is an accident but twice is a trend for unplanned pregnancies for entitlements. Just like China...ONE CHILD POLICY for AZ welfare benefits for one year. After one child...no benefits

[stevek64]

Originally Posted by yukon

Welfare and disability are not the same thing. Different programs.

The disability system is often called the "secret welfare system" for a reason.

[stevek64]

Originally Posted by magnum0417

As someone with a wife with medical issues unable to work herself...I bust my tail to maintain a respectable quality of life for her and I. My full time job is my vacation before spending the rest of my time tending to her medical needs at home which involves her immobility and failing kidneys. When I see HEALTHY individuals taking the easy way out, it strikes a nerve with me. Addictions can be overcome with enough WILL POWER.

I agree with you 100%. And I commend your hard work/have a great deal of respect for you busting your tail in your situation.

Another story. My dad grew up as a kid with an alcoholic dad who was violent. He would give his mom a black eye now and then among other not so pleasant things that went on in the house he grew up in. This caused lots of issues for my dad as a kid and he carried those scars with him as an adult as one could imagine. But my dad picked himself up and didn't use the excuse of his upbringing to not be productive in life. He didn't take money from any welfare system. Ever. Yet I bet he had every symptom to legitimately collect from the welfare system for a long time......mental anguish, scarring, abuse situation, violent home, etc, whatever the technical terms are today......probably all covered. And my dad would have easily been a candidate to abuse us as kids given his upbringing but he made the choice not to. He was a very caring/loving father who devoted lots of time to us and was sober. My dad made the choice instead to go to college(med school), worked in IT for many years, and played in bands at night when he was going to college to make money and did whatever job he had to do in addition to support my mom/family. He was lucky to sleep a few hours each night for years on end as he worked hard to make a better life for us.

What my dad taught myself/others was that we each make our own "luck" in life. And one's upbringing/background is no excuse for taking welfare perpetually. If the vast majority of people can't get their act together in 12 months on assistance as the new AZ law stipulates, one isn't applying themselves/doesn't want to change in my view.

[Rico Valencia]

Originally Posted by Maroon197

What's the deal with the lack of empathy for our most vulnerable citizens? All those lazy moochers and homeless lowlifes are actually just people-- other human beings, many of whom have suffered from mental illness, domestic violence, disability, job loss, and/or intergenerational poverty. A lot of them are also working moms and dads who still can't make ends meet despite their best efforts. Try explaining social Darwinism to a young child who doesn't have stable housing, clean clothes to wear, or nutritious food to eat.

I think a lot of the resentment stems from the large number of people who are gaming the system and playing the taxpayers for fools.

You would be shocked at the number of people who run underground businesses such as dealing drugs, running a landscaping business or a day care center from their home. These people obviously don't pay taxes on these underground businesses and then they get welfare, food stamps and other social services on top of that, talk about lucrative. This is the reason you will see many of these "parasites" driving around in a brand-new Escalades, BMW five series and Audis.

Then you have other people who game the system by only working say 16 to 20 hours a week, even though 30 hours a week may be available to them; this keeps their income low enough to keep the gravy train rolling

[sandy6879]

Originally Posted by Rico Valencia

I think a lot of the resentment stems from the large number of people who are gaming the system and playing the taxpayers for fools.

You would be shocked at the number of people who run underground businesses such as dealing drugs, running a landscaping business or a day care center from their home. These people obviously don't pay taxes on these underground businesses and then they get welfare, food stamps and other social services on top of that, talk about lucrative. This is the reason you will see many of these "parasites" driving around in a brand-new Escalades, BMW five series and Audis.

Then you have other people who game the system by only working say 16 to 20 hours a week, even though 30 hours a week may be available to them; this keeps their income low enough to keep the gravy train rolling

Think Welfare Recipients Abuse The System? You Should See This Chart

Your Assumptions About Welfare Recipients Are Wrong | ThinkProgress

Spending patterns of families receiving means-tested government assistance : Beyond the Numbers: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

“Average family size was the same (3.7 persons), whether or not a family received assistance,” the report notes.

Abuse is not as prevalent as people like to make it out to be. Does it happen? Yes. But let's stop punishing the masses for the actions of the few.

[magnum0417]

Originally Posted by stevek64

I agree with you 100%. And I commend your hard work/have a great deal of respect for you busting your tail in your situation.

Another story. My dad grew up as a kid with an alcoholic dad who was violent. He would give his mom a black eye now and then among other not so pleasant things that went on in the house he grew up in. This caused lots of issues for my dad as a kid and he carried those scars with him as an adult as one could imagine. But my dad picked himself up and didn't use the excuse of his upbringing to not be productive in life. He didn't take money from any welfare system. Ever. Yet I bet he had every symptom to legitimately collect from the welfare system for a long time......mental anguish, scarring, abuse situation, violent home, etc, whatever the technical terms are today......probably all covered. And my dad would have easily been a candidate to abuse us as kids given his upbringing but he made the choice not to. He was a very caring/loving father who devoted lots of time to us and was sober. My dad made the choice instead to go to college(med school), worked in IT for many years, and played in bands at night when he was going to college to make money and did whatever job he had to do in addition to support my mom/family. He was lucky to sleep a few hours each night for years on end as he worked hard to make a better life for us.

What my dad taught myself/others was that we each make our own "luck" in life. And one's upbringing/background is no excuse for taking welfare perpetually. If the vast majority of people can't get their act together in 12 months on assistance as the new AZ law stipulates, one isn't applying themselves/doesn't want to change in my view.

Great post Steve. Much of my resentment came from what went on in NY which has gotten even worse with Cuomo. Cuomo last year proposed giving free college degree programs to prisoners ! Yes, convicted felons get a 4 year degree for free while those deemed middle class on the outside pay 10s of thousands a year for college. The bill never came to pass but Cuomo's intention was to get more support from the liberals of downstate NY to solidify his reelection. Offensive to me but clever way to solidify his spot. Ducey is the AntiCuomo and that is a good thing !

[tijlover]

Now let's not get penny wise and dollar foolish here!

If some of them, as a result, resort to crime, end up in prison, the costs? Estimate of $40-50k a year per prisoner, that includes both direct and indirect costs! Have you even considered what it's costing to house our senior, ailing inmates?

Put them on the streets, on a national average, it costs taxpayers $42k a year for each homeless person on our streets! Yes, that may seem incomprehensible, until you weigh in the repeated trips to the Emergency Rooms, hospital stays, rehab facilities, prescription drugs, all born by the taxpayers!

I work in a LTC/Rehab facility and we get homeless people coming in, occasionally, some of them having messed themselves up with drugs/alcohol so irretrievably, even in their 20's/30's/40's, they'll never function again in a workplace setting! And, from there, they go straight onto the Medicaid rolls, or Social Security Disability!

A recent homeless patient came in, 45YO, overdosed on Meth, it triggered a heart attack, left him partially paralyzed! He'll be on Medicaid now for an eternity!

Choices! Choices! Choices!

[stevek64]

Originally Posted by sandy6879

Think Welfare Recipients Abuse The System? You Should See This Chart

Your Assumptions About Welfare Recipients Are Wrong | ThinkProgress

Spending patterns of families receiving means-tested government assistance : Beyond the Numbers: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

“Average family size was the same (3.7 persons), whether or not a family received assistance,” the report notes.

Abuse is not as prevalent as people like to make it out to be. Does it happen? Yes. But let's stop punishing the masses for the actions of the few.

The main point of the articles you referenced indicate that welfare collectors spend less/have smaller budgets than people who don't collect welfare. Shocking indeed. Sandy6879, I sure hope they don't make more than someone working for a living on average! Good gravy.

And what does that have to do with collecting under false pretenses or people getting off their duff and work for a living without collecting welfare for years/perpetually, which the new AZ law is designed to hopefully encourage? You know, teaching a man to fish kind of thing?

[magnum0417]

Originally Posted by tijlover

Now let's not get penny wise and dollar foolish here!

If some of them, as a result, resort to crime, end up in prison, the costs? Estimate of $40-50k a year per prisoner, that includes both direct and indirect costs! Have you even considered what it's costing to house our senior, ailing inmates?

Put them on the streets, on a national average, it costs taxpayers $42k a year for each homeless person on our streets! Yes, that may seem incomprehensible, until you weigh in the repeated trips to the Emergency Rooms, hospital stays, rehab facilities, prescription drugs, all born by the taxpayers!

I work in a LTC/Rehab facility and we get homeless people coming in, occasionally, some of them having messed themselves up with drugs/alcohol so irretrievably, even in their 20's/30's/40's, they'll never function again in a workplace setting! And, from there, they go straight onto the Medicaid rolls, or Social Security Disability!

A recent homeless patient came in, 45YO, overdosed on Meth, it triggered a heart attack, left him partially paralyzed! He'll be on Medicaid now for an eternity!

Choices! Choices! Choices!

I understand your take but what does it say about a society when crime pays for college whereas being an honest law abiding average Joe will cost you 10s of thousands in student loans ? Guess it is ok to teach your teenager how to rob a bank to get free education instead of working a minimum waged summer job ?