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No. I wrap myself in bedsheets and tablecloths from my neighborhood Target.
Your point doesn't change the logistical challenge present for people to get to malls. Again, if I live in an access controlled suburban subdivision, what incentive do I have to walk out of my maze of a neighborhood and down a major street with traffic whizzing by at 45+ MPH to wait for a train when I can just hop in my car? It makes no sense.
Or, get in my car and drive to a park and ride to go to the mall. It's one thing to use a park and ride to get to a bus or train to go to work for a whole day, but just a trip to the mall? Might as well drive. And, most do more than one errand when they are heading out shopping. People aren't going to get on and off the trains, and walk, and walk back, and wait for the next train. They will just drive, doing an out and back and stopping along the way as needed.
I know we all know about the occasional East Valley vs. West Valley rivalry, but as far as mass transit goes, I have heard that the City of Glendale seems to be extremely jealous of Mesa. After all, Glendale lost out on the light rail twice already, and bus service in Glendale is mostly inferior to that in Mesa. The City of Mesa doesn't even fund its own transit services; much of the bus and light rail service within Mesa is funded by Proposition 400. Only Phoenix, Tempe, and Scottsdale have a dedicated city transit tax, with Scottsdale's tax used mostly for the tourist trolleys. In fact, the new 75 and 83 routes (serving 75th and 83rd Avenues) don't even enter Glendale.
I would like to know, is there any truth to the statement of Glendale being jealous of Mesa's superior transit system?
In my dream light rail system, Glendale would at least be served by two lines (the Blue Line serving UoP Stadium and Westgate, and the Orange Line serving Downtown Glendale and Arrowhead Towne Center).
As a homeowner in Glendale, I live right by Marshall Ranch, I have zero idea what you are talking about.
As a homeowner in Glendale, I live right by Marshall Ranch, I have zero idea what you are talking about.
If you look my past threads, I did make a thread in the past of a dream system of light rail and streetcar routes for the Phoenix metro area. The system probably won't become a reality in the near future, but one could always dream.
In my dream system Glendale would just happen to be served by the Blue (also serves parts of Phoenix, Tempe and Mesa) and Orange (also serves parts of Peoria, Phoenix, Tempe, and Chandler) Lines in my system. The other line colors include Red (the existing route serving Phoenix, Tempe, and Mesa with an extension further east to Superstition Springs Center), Green (the proposed Tempe Streetcar), Silver (a combination of the South Phoenix and Northeast Phoenix proposals), Pink (a line serving Ahwatukee, Chandler, Gilbert, and East Mesa via Chandler Blvd/Williams Field and Power Road, warranted because Chandler/Williams Field has been designated in the past as a potential high-capacity transit corridor), Purple (serving Baseline from Laveen all the way to Superstition Springs Center through Tempe, Mesa, and the Mesa/Gilbert border), Brown (serving Scottsdale, Tempe, and Chandler via Scottsdale/Rural Road, probably the least likely of all the lines due to local opposition in Scottsdale), and Gold (a route from Downtown Phoenix to South Chandler going through Tempe, Mesa, and Gilbert).
If you look my past threads, I did make a thread in the past of a dream system of light rail and streetcar routes for the Phoenix metro area. The system probably won't become a reality in the near future, but one could always dream.
In my dream system Glendale would just happen to be served by the Blue (also serves parts of Phoenix, Tempe and Mesa) and Orange (also serves parts of Peoria, Phoenix, Tempe, and Chandler) Lines in my system. The other line colors include Red (the existing route serving Phoenix, Tempe, and Mesa with an extension further east to Superstition Springs Center), Green (the proposed Tempe Streetcar), Silver (a combination of the South Phoenix and Northeast Phoenix proposals), Pink (a line serving Ahwatukee, Chandler, Gilbert, and East Mesa via Chandler Blvd/Williams Field and Power Road, warranted because Chandler/Williams Field has been designated in the past as a potential high-capacity transit corridor), Purple (serving Baseline from Laveen all the way to Superstition Springs Center through Tempe, Mesa, and the Mesa/Gilbert border), Brown (serving Scottsdale, Tempe, and Chandler via Scottsdale/Rural Road, probably the least likely of all the lines due to local opposition in Scottsdale), and Gold (a route from Downtown Phoenix to South Chandler going through Tempe, Mesa, and Gilbert).
I don't think your "dream system" is what that poster, a Glendale resident, was referring to, but rather your original premise in this thread. That said, I know you are obsessed with your "dream" system which will never happen, but enough already.
If you look my past threads, I did make a thread in the past of a dream system of light rail and streetcar routes for the Phoenix metro area. The system probably won't become a reality in the near future, but one could always dream.
In my dream system Glendale would just happen to be served by the Blue (also serves parts of Phoenix, Tempe and Mesa) and Orange (also serves parts of Peoria, Phoenix, Tempe, and Chandler) Lines in my system. The other line colors include Red (the existing route serving Phoenix, Tempe, and Mesa with an extension further east to Superstition Springs Center), Green (the proposed Tempe Streetcar), Silver (a combination of the South Phoenix and Northeast Phoenix proposals), Pink (a line serving Ahwatukee, Chandler, Gilbert, and East Mesa via Chandler Blvd/Williams Field and Power Road, warranted because Chandler/Williams Field has been designated in the past as a potential high-capacity transit corridor), Purple (serving Baseline from Laveen all the way to Superstition Springs Center through Tempe, Mesa, and the Mesa/Gilbert border), Brown (serving Scottsdale, Tempe, and Chandler via Scottsdale/Rural Road, probably the least likely of all the lines due to local opposition in Scottsdale), and Gold (a route from Downtown Phoenix to South Chandler going through Tempe, Mesa, and Gilbert).
Your dream will never come true. Light rail will eventually reach out to a few established suburbs (it already has to Mesa, but only to the downtown area). It's mostly an urban form of public transit, and that's one reason why it has been successful: the initial line goes through mostly centralized/urban areas, and has more ridership as a result. I don't see light rail being very much used in the outlying suburban areas such as east Mesa, south Chandler, Gilbert, etc. because those areas are too auto centric, and I think many people who live in those locations like it that way.
Your dream will never come true. Light rail will eventually reach out to a few established suburbs (it already has to Mesa, but only to the downtown area). It's mostly an urban form of public transit, and that's one reason why it has been successful: the initial line goes through mostly centralized/urban areas, and has more ridership as a result. I don't see light rail being very much used in the outlying suburban areas such as east Mesa, south Chandler, Gilbert, etc. because those areas are too auto centric, and I think many people who live in those locations like it that way.
Note that Chandler Boulevard/Williams Field Road has been proposed by Valley Metro as a potential high capacity transit corridor, which could include either light rail or bus rapid transit. That would comprise most of my Pink Line.
Also, is Downtown Chandler really less urban than Downtown Mesa? They both seem pretty comparable to me. The Pink Line would go right through Downtown Chandler.
How would the light rail work if it's proposed to run in the median of one of the freeways? Where would the stops be built? As far as the existing line, what makes the most sense to me now is an extension that ends at Metrocenter. I know it's proposed to happen 10 years from now, but it would have been nice for that to have happened with the current construction going to 19th Ave and Dunlap.
How would the light rail work if it's proposed to run in the median of one of the freeways? Where would the stops be built?
There's bunch of places in the US that already have this. One that comes to mind is the DC metro system. A couple of reasons for it, cheaper ROW, usually you don't have to relocate any utilities, and you don't have to deal with the NIMBY's. Now with the stops, you have to get a little creative and have either tunnels under the highway or bridges over the highway to get the people to the stations. It's really nice if the stations in the median are located near large employer places next to the freeway so people can just walk to their place of employment, but usually there are park and ride garages on one or both sides of the freeway at the stations where people can park and hop on and off the light rail. So in the end most people would drive to a park and ride garage, then take the rail to work.
Note that Chandler Boulevard/Williams Field Road has been proposed by Valley Metro as a potential high capacity transit corridor, which could include either light rail or bus rapid transit. That would comprise most of my Pink Line.
Also, is Downtown Chandler really less urban than Downtown Mesa? They both seem pretty comparable to me. The Pink Line would go right through Downtown Chandler.
I could possibly see rapid bus transit on Williams Field Road, but light rail is just not going to happen anytime in the foreseeable future. Again, light rail is suitable for more condensed, urbanized areas ... or at least areas that are well established. There has to be demand for it as well, and I see Gilbert as being way too suburban and auto centric to support light rail. Improved bus service, possibly. Light rail, not likely. You have to also consider that even though Gilbert has a good sized population, it still calls itself a town ... and the conservative politics there might be resistant to increase public transit.
On the other hand, I can see Chandler possibly embracing light rail in the future ... although likely not south Chandler. There are employment centers in Chandler, and it's more of an established suburb with infrastructure, and there would likely be a higher demand for bus & rail than Gilbert. But as we know, Scottsdale rejected light rail, so it's really more of a cost factor above anything else. In any case, even if Chandler or other suburbs get onboard with light rail, it will be many many many many many years from now.
The downtown areas of Chandler & Mesa are probably about the same as far as being urban & dense. Neither are very dense at all, but Mesa seems to be somewhat more so than Chandler. I think the reason Mesa got light rail was due to the population and the demand. Mesa is quite a bit larger than Chandler, and it's not far from Tempe/ASU, so the demand is greater. The location of the initial line made Mesa a good stopping point, and a good straight route into Tempe & downtown Phoenix without having to make connections.
Last edited by Valley Native; 07-12-2015 at 02:00 PM..
and the conservative politics there might be resistant to increase public transit.
Mesa is almost as conservative as Gilbert and has fully embraced public transit; they have the third best transit network in the Valley behind Phoenix and Tempe, and that doesn't only include light rail. And there is already a planned extension of the existing light rail line to Gilbert Road.
I agree that Gilbert probably won't have first dibs on light rail, but I don't think the local government nor its residents are opposed to public transit to the level of Scottsdale. In fact, Gilbert mayor John Lewis supports public transportation and he keeps on getting elected. He is a strong ally of former Mesa mayor Scott Smith, as well as current Mesa mayor John Giles and current Chandler mayor Jay Tibshraeny, all of who are Republicans but in favor of increasing public transportation.
In fact the whole reason I am calling my Chandler/Williams Field/Power light rail line the Pink Line is because much of the area that would be served is politically conservative, and thus there is likely a lower than average gay population and thus fewer gays would be offended and gay stereotypes would not be promoted.
Last edited by Pink Jazz; 07-12-2015 at 03:35 PM..
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