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I'm a little skeptical that it will raise $31 billion but transit funding needs a boost. I really want to see the added light rail line from Downtown westward to the Capitol along Washington and Jefferson Street,it would benefit people like me and reduce reliance on my car. I work at the Capitol complex and am tired of the backed up drive both ways. That added line to the Capitol would make commuting easier for me and many other Government employees.
I appreciate everyone's responses, although I respectfully disagree with some of you who would like to see a hike in sales taxes to pay for a light rail system expansion that seems to operating in a deficit right now.
There's nothing wrong with having a light rail system in the Phoenix area, when the conditions are right and more commuters would use it for their daily commute, but spending additional tax payer Dollars on expanding a system that seems to be poorly-managed, and benefits only a small percentage of commuters right now would not make any sense.
As a native and a resident of Phoenix, if I were to pay additional tax Dollars for something that is supposed to "reduce congestion", I would like to see a large portion of the money used for different things, including various improvements in the roads/freeways and a variety of other things. Sure use some of that money to expand the light rail, but not most of it.
Light rail systems seem to be ideal for places like New York City, where you have some 8 million people living within an area that's a little over 300 square miles, not for a metro area like Phoenix, where it's spread out over 14,000 square miles, and I certainly cannot see a light rail system that mimics NYC's subway system and runs in all directions, on some of the major surface streets in Phoenix.
How does the light rail system seem poorly managed? If it was poorly managed there wouldn't be representatives from other cities looking at Phoenix's system for ideas on how to create their own light rail network. Any transit system is going to benefit a small percentage of the population in its beginning stages. The subway system in New York was just all built at once. I think it's pretty shortsighted to not support a system because it only serves a handful of neighborhoods now. Light rail will never serve all 14,000 square miles of the Phoenix area. That's not the point. It is there to connect key areas of the Valley with one another. It gives people who don't have cars other options to get around.
New York does not have a light rail and light rail would not make sense in a place like New York. There is a subway and a bus system that works there fine. Our light rail system will never mimic New York's subway network. I see our light rail system being developed in much the same way LA's light rail system works. Serving densely populated areas and areas with low car ownership.
We've seen the signs on every street corner asking us to vote yes on Prop 104.
Information about this proposition.. MovePHX - It basically increases sales taxes to generate $31.7 Billion to supposedly "improve" transportation in Phoenix.
I have nothing against improving transportation in Phoenix and make it easier to get from point a to point b without having to deal with congestion, but with this proposition, which focuses mainly on expanding the light rail, we should NOT have to pay for something most of us DO NOT USE. If they want to expand light rail, they need to find another source of revenue to pay for it.
As a native and a resident of Phoenix, if I were to pay additional tax Dollars for something that is supposed to "reduce congestion", I would like to see a large portion of the money used for different things, including various improvements in the roads/freeways and a variety of other things. Sure use some of that money to expand the light rail, but not most of it.
Did you even read the websites that you cited in your original post? Even your anti tax group states that 20% of the money will go to light rail. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that mean "a large portion of the money" is used for different things? And "some of the money" is used for light rail? This prop 2014 is doing exactly what you want!
I find it amusing to read comments such as Phoenix having bad roads or antiquated road systems...one of the things I like most about Phoenix is how good the roads are and how easy it is to get around.....of course I may just be a little biased since I spend so much time in the failed 3rd world experiment known today as Chicago.
I like using good mass transit systems such as the one you find in DC and Boston...very clean, easy to use and most importantly..not overrun with foul smells and or people that you want no where near you or your family.
If Phoenix was able to produce something like DC or Boston and keep it clean and safe not making you stop in bad areas I would consider using it...it would also have to allow conceal carry as well.
If Phoenix was able to produce something like DC or Boston and keep it clean and safe not making you stop in bad areas I would consider using it...it would also have to allow conceal carry as well.
DC and Boston is heavy rail. There would be only two ways to do something similar in the Valley, tunnel it all or have the entire line elevated, including the stations, with grade-separated tracks. Tunneling would be ridiculously expensive, and while having an elevated line, say like Vancouver, would be cheaper than tunneling, it probably would be a lot more expensive than the current setup.
For too long Phoenix has been focused on suburbanization and not becoming a more urban place. Planners in the 50s-80s allowed the region's original streetcar to be torn out, numerous historical buildings were torn down for dumpy parking lots, and liberal growth policies have allowed for a continuous cannibalization of more established neighborhoods. Although many people here appreciate Phoenix for being a more suburban oriented city, the
fact of the matter is that this is the 6th largest city and needs to reflect that. If people want to live in suburban areas, living in a growing city of almost 1.6 million is probably not the place to be.
I think the biggest draw to AZ is because we are a suburban. Why do people come here from those big city's and want to turn Phoenix into NYC?
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it would also have to allow conceal carry as well.
I need to look into this because it was my understanding that the city was not allowed to stop people from doing this unless the state law says you can't carry on public transportation. They had no guns allowed in parks but had to take down those signs after getting sued state law preempted city gun bans in AZ.
I think the biggest draw to AZ is because we are a suburban. Why do people come here from those big city's and want to turn Phoenix into NYC?
I need to look into this because it was my understanding that the city was not allowed to stop people from doing this unless the state law says you can't carry on public transportation. They had no guns allowed in parks but had to take down those signs after getting sued state law preempted city gun bans in AZ.
All metropolitan areas are suburban to a point, even big eastern areas like New York, Philadelphia, and Boston have sprawl and a good amount of suburbia.
People who support this aren't trying to turn Phoenix into New York, we just favor more choices besides driving.
Part of being a large city is having a comprehensive mass transit system that includes improved roads, better bus service, more freeways, more light rail, and even commuter rail.
It's a matter of supporting it now or paying a much higher cost later.
I tried the light rail a few times when it first started up my impression was it took too long stopping at every station and stop light. It was little faster then a city bus, but in reality the rapid bus system was much more efficient because most people do not live in the area where the light rail is operating. Recently the light rail discussion came up at work co-worker said he and his wife tested it out riding it to the airport he said the light rail has a big problem with tweekers and Hobo's riding the light rail without paying. The same people with the sign asking for money and a gas can how they ran out of gas. He said these people who stunk and were high on drugs get on and off without paying, and he didn't feel safe riding with those people. I thought they watched for that he said it seemed to him police gave up on enforcing free riding maybe it was politically incorrect to kick those people off the light rail. This reminds me a lot of the city Dash bus which was free those hobo's would ride it around all day I used to use it to go to lunch when I worked downtown until I saw a hobo shooting up drugs in the back. I will suggest people vote no we need rapid service down the freeways not in the city.
Fox 10 report tax payers paying for people that don't pay
City transit officials readily admit getting everyone to pay is impossible. And the truth is they don't want to check any more than 20 percent of riders a day.
"If you go over the industry standard of 20 percent or more.. you start to create an environment of harassment," said Ruiz.
As someone that rides the light rail daily I work downtown and Instead of paying $50-$85 a month to park a lot of people use the light rail. They park at one of the park and rides and our company pays for the monthly pass for the light rail. I see the statement all the time by people who never use the light rail it's full of tweekers and bums that never pay. While that does happen the majority are business people like myself, ASU students, and your average person who may not have a car going to work. The majority of the time like today it's standing room only and when ASU is in session it's filled to capacity. Transit security checks all the time like this morning and the majority of people pull out their cards and they scan them seeing if they were used. While I don't live in Phoenix increased light rail lines is a win win for everyone.
You can love Light Rail in appropriate places and hate Prop 104. I have used the lightrail to go into downtown and it's a good system, as far as it goes. That doesn't mean we have to blindly accept every bill that comes through touting light rail or "move phoenix" as the reason to approve it. I'm voting No until some of the issues can be ironed out and clarified. No rubber stamp. A lot of this originally was to connect Glendale to Downtown. One of the planners said they wanted it originally in time for the SuperBowl. (Sorry, I'm traveling and don't have access to all my notes.) I'm also a little suspicious and want to do more research on who is behind the Move Phoenix side of this issue. They sure have deep pockets... just sayin' -- what are they getting out of this? Can't just be that they altruistically want "better roads" and transportation.
My concern is that every Municipality is putting tax increases on their ballots along with Prop 104. This isn't about 30¢ -- this is about thousands of $$ cumulatively. Increases on sales tax on everything you buy online, at the mall, and your large purchases as well. We are being buried in tax increases, yet none of our leaders seem to be able to figure out how to be more efficient and effective with the money they've already taken from us. There's a reason businesses are leaving California - and it's spelled TAXES. Let's not make the same mistake here.
For those that pick on retirees "not wanting change" or saying they need to "get with the program", consider this: Maybe after decades and decades and decades of hearing politicians lie and city/state/federal "leaders" smile and shake our hands during elections only to turn around and screw us, retirees have had enough. Been there, done that, saw that, got the T-shirt. I like what Lou Holz recently said to a college kid who was heckling him, "I've been 21, you haven't been 78." Just as a 20-something can give some solid advice to a high school kid, an older adult with decades of experience may just have something worth listening to. Even at my age - I've heard this song and dance so many times, and all these excuses and passionate lectures about supporting this kind of increase. Then you look at the results 5 years later and wonder how the hell we got here. Try going back on the internet and reading some old arguments about this or that bill - the ones that succeeded and the ones that failed. Interesting thought exercise.
My issue? These legislators make these bills so long and confusing that no one can read or understand them. Then after they pass, we sit around scratching our heads and looking at our empty wallets wondering what happened. I'm looking at our other budget shortfalls and I'm wondering if they are telling us this is for the roads and light rail, but it's really to shore up the other financial black holes. Let's not agree to add more chains around our ankles until we get some answers.
If Prop 104 needs to go back to the drawing board, so be it. It won't kill us to wait another year. They are trying hard to push this bill in hopes that the Feds will pitch in with a few million or billion here and there. Yeah, this country's finances are in great shape to be doing that. /sarc/ So what do we do? Tear up portions of our good roads in hopes that Uncle Sam will help pay for it? Then when we go all Greece we'll have higher taxes, emptier wallets and torn up streets.
BTW For a city this size as spread out as it is, we have a damn good freeway system. Don't believe me? Go drive in Boston. Drive through Detroit or Chicago. Get stuck on the Honolulu freeway at drive time. We can't predict the future of this city - but one thing we CAN predict is that Politicians will always have their hands out.
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