Phoenix water quality- A lot to be desired (Tucson, Scottsdale: landscaping, buy)

[Potential_Landlord]

Are there any water softener systems that do not give you the "greasy feeling" yet are still affordable? We are so ready to buy a softener system due to the residue build up and cleaning issues with our water. Thanks!

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by Potential_Landlord

Are there any water softener systems that do not give you the "greasy feeling" yet are still affordable? We are so ready to buy a softener system due to the residue build up and cleaning issues with our water. Thanks!

every softener out there uses the same technology, though many like to pretend they have magic beans in theirs. You can do your own research, but i think you'll find "de scalers" are just expensive snake oil. There's no reason to pay more than about $750 installed for a softener - there are 3 major brands of control valves - fleck, clack & autotrol, personally, i'd stay away from the autotrol, i had one of those blow up while i was on vacation..

[stevek64]

Originally Posted by kell490

Phoenix waster has a lot of TDS around 650 twice the national average that is what makes all those water spots on everything when it drys. When you run it though a ion exchange system salt based type it replaces that with salt that is why you feel like you can't wash it off reminds me of ocean swimming. I drink water right from the tap and actually don't like the taste of RO water its acidic because when you RO the water you remove all the minerals and that RO water sucks the minerals out of your body. I built an RO system for washing my car it can RO 2500 Gallons a day with the secondary de-ionized filter I can get the TDS down to 0. Which means I can wash a black car and drive away without drying it leaves no residue at all. I haven't dried a car with a towel in 3 years.

Dr. Jacqueline Gerhart: There's good and bad to using reverse osmosis water systems | UW Health | Madison, WI

The RO process does make water more acid on the ph scale, yes. About 5-6 ph based on what I've read. The diet/foods most people eat in the western diet is also on the low ph/acid side, often lower than this on average:

http://www.foodscience.caes.uga.edu/...dslacf-phs.pdf

Detailed Listing of Acid / Alkaline Forming Foods

If you're truly concerned about an acid ph level in your body, your diet should be your biggest concern. There's also "neutralizing" RO filter systems with a 4th filter that will raise the ph of RO water for those who are concerned. And eat lots of fruits and vegetables for minerals.....far more of it in food than a glass of water that is "high" in minerals. Here's what Phoenix tap water has in terms of 3 minerals:

PubMed Central, Table 2: J Gen Intern Med. 2001 Mar; 16(3): 168

Look at the salt content of tap water from Phoenix at 169mg per liter(about 32 oz) of water. There's your highest mineral by far. Calcium is only about 50mg per liter and magnesium is only 20mg. This is minuscule compared to what a good diet can provide.

In my view, I think it's fear marketing by some to sell other types of water filtration systems without telling the full story but whatever works for you.

Originally Posted by Zippyman

every softener out there uses the same technology, though many like to pretend they have magic beans in theirs. You can do your own research, but i think you'll find "de scalers" are just expensive snake oil. There's no reason to pay more than about $750 installed for a softener - there are 3 major brands of control valves - fleck, clack & autotrol, personally, i'd stay away from the autotrol, i had one of those blow up while i was on vacation..

I thought the same but after doing an A/B test before and after the device, it made a noticeable difference. Unless our city water started filtering/got their water from a new source within the test time frame, I can't think of any other variables as all is the same in that regard. Count me surprised and impressed. Not in removing the mineral content/softening the water of course but it definitely made the cleaning of shower heads, the scale on the counter-tops, scale that builds up around the sink drain, etc. MUCH easier to scrub off and there's less buildup too. My wife praises it as it made her life much easier in the cleaning department. A neighbor a few doors down uses one and I heard through the grapevine she noticed the same good result.

I think some( I know you know this) have the belief they soften the water like a salt water softener and review "they don't work, there garbage!". Just my guess. And some don't hook them up to the most optimum location. The one we use(I think most of them?) have a full 12 month money back guarantee(sold on amazon) so it was a no brainier try for us. I was fully expecting to ship it back/getting my money back.

[Redneck Russell]

The water tastes silty

[D.Rock]

Originally Posted by DougStark

IMO, Phoenix would be A LOT more desirable of a city if it had decent drinking water. I know we have to deal with what we're given (crappy, salty water from rivers), but if magic could be done and Phoenix's water was as delicious as Seattle's or NYC's, this city would benefit immeasurably. San Francisco also has extremely high quality water, btw.

What do you think?

Benefits of better water:
-Trees, lawns and outdoor plantings would thrive instead of just survive
-No more water softeners (which pollute groundwater with sodium and chloride)
-healthier skin, hair, dishes
-easier to clean surfaces/windows without water spots- imagine that!
-no need for reverse osmosis units
-massive increase in revenue for the high tech industry that relies on high quality water

"High quality" water you define seems to be based on taste preference. We have decent water here that is as safe as any other city. People complain because they grew up drinking water from wherever they came from but if you grew up here you might think other city water taste funny. Taste is often impacted by the pipes that bring it into the house. We dont have problems with lead pipes like many places back east which is part of the benefit of being a younger city...

Plants do thrive here, they are called desert adaptive plants and have undergone thousands of years of evolution...

Healthier skin and hair is more dependent on your diet/genetics than the regional water you are drinking...

There are large tech industries that use our water already, and if water quality is an issue they will usually install industrial/commercial grade purification systems...

Lot of talk about medications/endocrine disruptors in water, something that is not as big of a problem here since we do not use large amounts of reclaimed water here for potable use. Detection limits for these chemicals are also very small in the ug/L to ng/L range so should not concern people

[goolsbyjazz]

Umm, using Phoenix water and the word "quality" in the same sentence should be a crime! Just saying.

[Redneck Russell]

Originally Posted by goolsbyjazz

Umm, using Phoenix water and the word "quality" in the same sentence should be a crime! Just saying.

Yep!

[Diane de Poitiers]

Originally Posted by D.Rock

Taste is often impacted by the pipes that bring it into the house. We dont have problems with lead pipes like many places back east which is part of the benefit of being a younger city...

Does this also apply to water from a hose? Because in all honesty, I'd rather drink that than water from the tap in, for example.....the kitchen sink. (which tastes musty and stale, like it's been sitting for days)

[DougStark]

Originally Posted by Moo_juu

I came to Surprise (Phoenix suburb) exactly one week ago. I came kicking and screaming prepared to hate this place. Yet even with my desire to confirm anything negative, I must admit that the drinking water to me taste just fine and I wonder what all the fuss is about. I have heard from many people how supposedly bad this water is, but it is ok to me.

I have lived in many places and to me the worse water was in New York. Although thankfully, I only visited there.

Thanks for your input. Here's what may be in play: Not all cities in the valley use surface water (like from the CAP canals.) Most do, but not all. For example, San Tan Valley relies on ground water I believe.

I don't know where Surprise gets its water, but I wouldn't be surprised if it uses some groundwater (which may or may not taste better than treated canal water.

Welcome to town, BTW.

[DougStark]

Originally Posted by observer53

You are never going to get city water to a point that some people would not feel the need for water softening and reverse osmosis. I haven't had either for decades, but some say they have to have it, okay for them. The source of the water here, vs. the sources in the other cities you name, are just geologically different. Deal with it. Same with the water spots. That said, I've seen some very clean windows around here. You are either just not doing it right, or looking for more things to complain about Phoenix than you've already done.

I've seen some thriving trees and grass around here, too, for those who want to have it. I realize this involves another of your pet peeves, so enough said.

We've always had a fair amount of high tech industry here. Can you point to a source (link) that says that X company did not move here because its high tech operations couldn't use Phoenix water?

Observer, thanks for your input. To be honest, I just re-read this post of mine from last year and I felt a little embarrassed re-reading it. I must have been in a bad mood.

I think I wrote the post as a "what if..." and "wouldn't it be great" state of mind. Sorry if I came off whiny.

However, I do stand by my statements. The high tech industry spends BIG bucks treating our water to make it ultra pure. I don't know how the cost of treating our water ranks compared to other costs of doing business in AZ. Perhaps it's a minimal extra cost to pay compared to the ultra high real estate costs of the Silicon valley or state corporate taxes in some other state. Anyone with info on this?

Observer, I'm smart enough to know why our water is what it is. I'm also smart enough to dream that if it was as pure and salt free as NYC's or SF's water, our local landscapes and agriculture would do x-times better. Perhaps you're not as familiar as I am about the undesirability of alkaline, relatively salty water on plant/crop growth. All you need to do is google the topic- you'll find tons of articles on the subject.

As for windows, I'm well aware commercial window washers use purified, de-mineralized water to wash windows.