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Old 11-16-2015, 10:45 AM
 
4,620 posts, read 9,246,972 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG CATS View Post
Sorry, I dont really care for the SE valley too much, so sue me I guess?!

I spend 95% of my time in Scottsdale, Fountain Hills, and Carefree, where it actually looks like the desert, and not some sprawling, generic suburb. Thats just what I prefer, and my opinion. I like the look of Scottsdale (even down to the fact they dont allow billboards) and its surrounds.

And I might be a "newbie" here in the Valley, only having lived here a few years, but Ive vacationed here every year for well over a decade. And yes, I do find scorpions intriguing. Im an amateur entomologist, and have a weird infatuation with venomous creatures. Your point?
My point that I thought was clear was that the market here by and large demands grass and that growth here was not driven by xeriscape. I brought up the Southeast valley as that is the region of the Phoenix metro that has driven the most growth the past 20 years or so. I like Scottsdale too, mostly the area around Cactus/101 (Central Scottsdale) where there is more greenery. Your embracing of the desert and desert creatures is not necessarily the norm here, although as I admitted that market does exist.
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Old 11-16-2015, 11:44 AM
 
Location: East Central Phoenix
8,028 posts, read 12,207,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG CATS View Post
Thats your own opinion. I find the brown landscapes of AZ far more appealing than the green of Georgia. And if you think green is more pleasing to look at, why in the flying gnat ballsack do you choose to live in Phoenix (one of the least-green cities in the USA)?
I didn't "choose" to live in Phoenix ... I was born here, and have lived here over 50 years. My family is here, my job is here, and I have a house that I own free & clear. Those are the main reasons I continue to reside here ... which I consider to be much more important than the sunshine, the dry air, or what kind of lawns are predominant. I will admit, however, that if there ever would be some kind of draconian ordinance which banned grass and demanded everybody switch to xeriscape, I'd probably consider moving somewhere else. Thankfully, I highly doubt there will ever be such a law ... too many people would rightfully be against it. I can't begin to imagine the amount of dust that would result, the enhancement of the heat island even further, and the barren look of the place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG CATS View Post
I spend 95% of my time in Scottsdale, Fountain Hills, and Carefree, where it actually looks like the desert, and not some sprawling, generic suburb. Thats just what I prefer, and my opinion. I like the look of Scottsdale (even down to the fact they dont allow billboards) and its surrounds.

And I might be a "newbie" here in the Valley, only having lived here a few years, but Ive vacationed here every year for well over a decade. And yes, I do find scorpions intriguing. Im an amateur entomologist, and have a weird infatuation with venomous creatures. Your point?
OK, that's your preference. You like the natural desert look, and I prefer the greenery. That's what's great about the Phoenix metro area: we can have a choice of xeriscape, artificial turf, or plush green grass for our yards ... or we can live in a condo or apartment & not have a lawn to worry about at all. To each his own. The whole point I was making was: I despise dictating, meddling types who are trying to force xeriscape on the entire region. Not everybody likes that type of landscape (nor should be forced to convert to it) just because we're in a desert region.
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Old 11-16-2015, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
2,653 posts, read 3,025,635 times
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[quote=pbenjamin;41922258]Not sure what won't grow here, but the common grasses used for lawns are bermudagrass (common and hybrid), St. Augustine, fescue and ryegrass.[/quote

Kentucky bluegrass won't survive in the valley, except during the short, cool season. It's generally not used for overseeding bermuda grass in the late fall because it sprouts slowly and is slower to establish than perennial rye grass.


It wouldn't stand a chance to survive our summers, even with water.
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Old 11-16-2015, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
5,649 posts, read 5,932,633 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asufan View Post
My point that I thought was clear was that the market here by and large demands grass and that growth here was not driven by xeriscape. I brought up the Southeast valley as that is the region of the Phoenix metro that has driven the most growth the past 20 years or so. I like Scottsdale too, mostly the area around Cactus/101 (Central Scottsdale) where there is more greenery. Your embracing of the desert and desert creatures is not necessarily the norm here, although as I admitted that market does exist.
I didnt say the market here was driven by xeriscape. In fact I specifically stated it was driven by pricing, etc (see my post a few pages back).
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Old 11-16-2015, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
445 posts, read 513,238 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG CATS View Post
Thats your own opinion. I find the brown landscapes of AZ far more appealing than the green of Georgia. And if you think green is more pleasing to look at, why in the flying gnat ballsack do you choose to live in Phoenix (one of the least-green cities in the USA)?
I gave this post reputation points only for the excellent use of the phrase "flying gnat ballsack."
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Old 11-16-2015, 06:45 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
2,653 posts, read 3,025,635 times
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Default western water wars

Quote:
Originally Posted by new2colo View Post
As I have mentioned in previous posts, grass is a waste here. I don't care if it part of the historic nature of Phoenix. Imagine if everyone in the Valley had grass lawns like some of the more centralized neighborhoods have? We would put even more strain on the Colorado River to water our lawns. The city is not an oasis. It's a desert. It's should be treated that way. If you want grass, go east.
New2, your opinions would have a little more credibility if you complained similarly about all of the farmers in the State using tons and tons of water for alfalfa, cotton, and other agronomic crops. I would think you should proclaim that cotton should only be grown in the south, and alfalfa should only be grown where it rains like in Iowa.

If you want to complain about a region that uses a TON of Colo. River Water, look no further than the Imperial Valley of CA (just over the border from Yuma.) That valley uses an immense amount of water to raise winter vegetables. And the water they get is CHEAP because they claimed "water rights" very early on (early 1900s.) - earlier than Los Angeles, San Diego, and other cities. Now the water shortages in San Diego and LA are so great, those cities are leasing the Imperial Valley's water rights at great expense. The Imperial Valley farmers are incredible wealthy.

Your anger and focus on people having bermuda grass on their small, city lots in Phoenix is just plain crazy IMO. People like grass: it feels good on the feet, pets like it, it cools the air, and it's pretty!
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Old 11-17-2015, 05:32 AM
 
3,279 posts, read 5,298,917 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougStark View Post
New2, your opinions would have a little more credibility if you complained similarly about all of the farmers in the State using tons and tons of water for alfalfa, cotton, and other agronomic crops. I would think you should proclaim that cotton should only be grown in the south, and alfalfa should only be grown where it rains like in Iowa.

If you want to complain about a region that uses a TON of Colo. River Water, look no further than the Imperial Valley of CA (just over the border from Yuma.) That valley uses an immense amount of water to raise winter vegetables. And the water they get is CHEAP because they claimed "water rights" very early on (early 1900s.) - earlier than Los Angeles, San Diego, and other cities. Now the water shortages in San Diego and LA are so great, those cities are leasing the Imperial Valley's water rights at great expense. The Imperial Valley farmers are incredible wealthy.

Your anger and focus on people having bermuda grass on their small, city lots in Phoenix is just plain crazy IMO. People like grass: it feels good on the feet, pets like it, it cools the air, and it's pretty!
I think the difference is because, in those things being grown, we're talking about products that do something. Cotton is used to make clothes, for instance.

Grass--all it does is supposedly look pretty, it serves no real functional purpose which nothing else can serve just as well, and yes I think it's silly to CHOOSE to live in an area where its existence has to be somewhat created vs that it's naturally occurring when you are in the desert. It just makes no logical sense.

As I said, I moved to Tucson for a 10 year spell and when I did, I didn't come with this entitlement mentality that I was entitled to grass in the yard in the desert of all places. I came in understanding that I was in a totally different region of the country, and that such wasn't native to the area and that I needed to learn to like what was native to the area. To me, that's what you do--and in the few cases I've read where local ordinances at times have made people accept this (forbidding grass due to its heavy water usage), as much as I typically am someone who is fiercely in favor of a person's right to do with their own land whatever they please, the presence of such ordinances frankly pleases me in a way.

People have no business CHOOSING to live in a DESERT (and that includes people who choose to CONTINUE to live here) and then expecting GRASS. It doesn't matter if you like it, it doesn't matter even that you can pay for the water--it's ridiculous to move (or choose to continue to live) to the desert and then demand east-coast landscaping. You didn't see me moving to Alaska and demanding palm trees. You didn't see me moving to Florida and demanding ice bergs. You don't see me moving to Minnesota and then complaining about how cold it is. You don't see me moving to New York City and then demanding that it look like I'm still living in the boonies. Come on already.
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Old 11-17-2015, 06:12 AM
 
20,524 posts, read 15,851,204 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Java Jolt View Post
I like the look of some desert yards if they are weed-free but they make lousy play areas for children and pets.

They generate heat too.

Imho a house is not a home in the Phoenix area unless it has grass, shadetrees, and a pool, the combination of these three things make the summertime heat much more bearable.

I'm not too concerned about the abundance of water or lack thereof, it seems as though we have enough water for the foreseeable future.
Agreed. I remember reading somewhere that a place in Phoenix WITH grass and trees does NOT need as much AC use. Something like 6 hours a day but the places with "desert" vegetation, AC's needed something like 20 hours a day. I'm talking the middle of summer here.
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Old 11-17-2015, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
5,649 posts, read 5,932,633 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Agreed. I remember reading somewhere that a place in Phoenix WITH grass and trees does NOT need as much AC use. Something like 6 hours a day but the places with "desert" vegetation, AC's needed something like 20 hours a day. I'm talking the middle of summer here.
I wouldnt say thats true, necessarily. I guess it comes down to which way the home faces, and how many windows it has. That would be my first guess. Luckily for us, our condo faces E/W and we have minimal windows on the west side, so we dont run the a/c too terribly much during summer if we can help it. Some days its comfy enough to not run the air until the night when we head to bed.
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Old 11-17-2015, 08:06 AM
 
4,620 posts, read 9,246,972 times
Reputation: 4974
Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post
I think the difference is because, in those things being grown, we're talking about products that do something. Cotton is used to make clothes, for instance.

Grass--all it does is supposedly look pretty, it serves no real functional purpose which nothing else can serve just as well, and yes I think it's silly to CHOOSE to live in an area where its existence has to be somewhat created vs that it's naturally occurring when you are in the desert. It just makes no logical sense.
Much of that agriculture goes to make alfalfa hay so people can feed their animals (perhaps an enormous waste of water?). Grass definitely does have a purpose (to humans more importantly, but animals too). Try playing football, soccer, kickball, baseball or doing cartwheels in rocks and cactus then get back to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post
As I said, I moved to Tucson for a 10 year spell
Sorry to hear that, it must have been horrible.
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