Denver vs. Phoenix (Scottsdale, Tempe, Flagstaff: foreclosures, job market, schools)

[funyon]

Originally Posted by Beena

Relocated to Scottsdale from Denver 14 years ago and will never go back. Sunshine, sunshine, sunshine. You can go months here without seeing a cloud. To me that is priceless. The cold and gloomy freezing weather in Denver was enough to kill a person. The outdoor life here is incredible.

I have heard both points on the summer evenings in Phoenix -- whether or not you can be active. Hopefully, you can shed some light on this. Once the sun drops, is it still too hot to take dogs for walks, sit outside, etc.? I've been told by others that in the summer that's when everybody does their thing outside. However, I have also heard that because of all the concrete and asphalt, there really is no good time to be outside in the summer. The main reason I want out of Denver area is I'm tired of being in for 5-6 months of the year -- I really hate the cold. I realize that I will not want to be out in the middle part of the day, but was hoping that in the mornings and evenings, one could step out and go for a walk. By the way, how early do you have to get out before it's too hot in the summer?

[Patrick754]

Originally Posted by funyon

I have heard both points on the summer evenings in Phoenix -- whether or not you can be active. Hopefully, you can shed some light on this. Once the sun drops, is it still too hot to take dogs for walks, sit outside, etc.? I've been told by others that in the summer that's when everybody does their thing outside. However, I have also heard that because of all the concrete and asphalt, there really is no good time to be outside in the summer. The main reason I want out of Denver area is I'm tired of being in for 5-6 months of the year -- I really hate the cold. I realize that I will not want to be out in the middle part of the day, but was hoping that in the mornings and evenings, one could step out and go for a walk. By the way, how early do you have to get out before it's too hot in the summer?

It all depends on what your tolerance level for heat is, and how dedicated you are to your hiking/biking/walking etc. I stay active all summer long on the local trails by getting up early and going out after sundown. The sun is more the killer here than the air temperature.

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by funyon

I have heard both points on the summer evenings in Phoenix -- whether or not you can be active. Hopefully, you can shed some light on this. Once the sun drops, is it still too hot to take dogs for walks, sit outside, etc.? I've been told by others that in the summer that's when everybody does their thing outside. However, I have also heard that because of all the concrete and asphalt, there really is no good time to be outside in the summer. The main reason I want out of Denver area is I'm tired of being in for 5-6 months of the year -- I really hate the cold. I realize that I will not want to be out in the middle part of the day, but was hoping that in the mornings and evenings, one could step out and go for a walk. By the way, how early do you have to get out before it's too hot in the summer?

Let's put it this way: imagine the hottest summer days in Denver in July or August, when the temperatures get into the upper 90s, and assume no afternoon thunderstorms (which can be annoying but signficantly lower the temperatures, making the evenings delightful once the storm passes through), so it's a dry heat lasting all day. Hot during the day, but perfectly comfortable at night. If we take this last year as an example, that's the kind of weather Phoenix had in October and April and some of May. How comfortable are you in Denver in July and August? If that's too hot for you, stop reading. If you enjoy those months, keep reading on. Now: Do you remember that day several years ago (July 20, 2005) when the thermometer in Denver reached its all time record high-- 105 degrees? Imagine heat that hot, every single day, day after day after day, with no breaks. That's what June and September were like in Phoenix last year-- hotter than anything Denver regularly experiences at any time of the year. Is that hot enough for you? If so, stop reading. If not, keep on: Imagine heat hotter than even the hottest day on record in Denver going on for 2 months straight: that's July and August in Phoenix for you.

Now, for the nice months of the year: November in Phoenix is equivalent to September in Denver. December, January, and February in Phoenix on average are equivalent to late September/early October or April in Denver (either a dry or rainy April day-- not a late spring snowstorm). Some of the coldest days Phoenix gets in Dec, Jan, and Feb are about on par with the warmest days Denver might have in November, February or March. An average March day in Phoenix is equivalent to early May in Denver (the perfect time of the year for both cities). And of course, the weather Denver gets on average in December, January, and February does not exist in Phoenix's climate. And obviously, the snowstorms Denver gets does not exist in Phoenix's climate either. Winter rains, like today for example, are very common though. The monsoon season in Phoenix doesn't really have a parallel to Denver either-- closest thing would be the afternoon thunderstorms in early summer, but without the cooling effect.

[Gretchen B]

I found that when I moved from Colorado/Nebraska to the Phoenix area that I really didn't miss winter much (although I do like to see an occasional snow). And the early spring/late fall weather in Phoenix is really nice "outdoor" weather. What I did miss, though, was the summers. I'm sure I never got fully acclimated, but I really hated not being able to be outdoors in the summer in Phoenix. For me, 100 degrees at 10:00 at night is more than I can handle. Even 90 at 6 - 7 a.m. is tough. Especially day after day.

For me, the perfect solution was Prescott. Plus there's lots of other areas of AZ with similar weather. A little snow in the winter that melts immediately. Highs in the summer in the upper 80's/90's, cooling down to the 60's at night. And lots of days in the spring and fall in the 70's. We hang out on our patio pretty much from April til November. In the middle of summer the temp is back down in the 70's by about 8 p.m., so I think it's really nice.

One thing that AZ doesn't have that Denver does - gnats, flies, and mosquitos. I definitely don't miss those!

[PhxBarb]

Just my 2 cents: Denver has a greater number of EDUCATED people. Phoenix has a herd of HS drop outs who are willing to accept bottom of the barrel wages with no problem.

[funyon]

Originally Posted by Gretchen B

I found that when I moved from Colorado/Nebraska to the Phoenix area that I really didn't miss winter much (although I do like to see an occasional snow). And the early spring/late fall weather in Phoenix is really nice "outdoor" weather. What I did miss, though, was the summers. I'm sure I never got fully acclimated, but I really hated not being able to be outdoors in the summer in Phoenix. For me, 100 degrees at 10:00 at night is more than I can handle. Even 90 at 6 - 7 a.m. is tough. Especially day after day.

For me, the perfect solution was Prescott. Plus there's lots of other areas of AZ with similar weather. A little snow in the winter that melts immediately. Highs in the summer in the upper 80's/90's, cooling down to the 60's at night. And lots of days in the spring and fall in the 70's. We hang out on our patio pretty much from April til November. In the middle of summer the temp is back down in the 70's by about 8 p.m., so I think it's really nice.

One thing that AZ doesn't have that Denver does - gnats, flies, and mosquitos. I definitely don't miss those!

Are you serious -- no gnats, flies and mosquitos -- huge, huge plus. Do you know if Prescott's winters are as long and windy as Denver's? The wind in the winter is at least 4 out of 7 days. The cold doesn't bother me near as much as the wind. Winter in Denver, in my opinion, is Mid-November through Mid-April. I know a ton of people will disagree with me, but March and early April are very unpredictable and still windy and cold.

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by Gretchen B

One thing that AZ doesn't have that Denver does - gnats, flies, and mosquitos. I definitely don't miss those!

I think that all depends on the neighborhood you live in. Anywhere in Phoenix with standing water has all those flying bugs and more. There are swarms of gnats hanging around Tempe Town Lake (aka Tempe town sewer ) in the summer, for example. In neighborhoods such as The Lakes, a nice well kept 1970s neighborhood in Tempe with homes backing up to a man-made lake, the mosquitos and gnats are pretty bad-- especially in the evenings. But then if go to "drier" neighborhoods, especially towards the outskirts, you rarely see any flying bugs, other than giant carpenter bees.

[Gretchen B]

Originally Posted by funyon

Are you serious -- no gnats, flies and mosquitos -- huge, huge plus. Do you know if Prescott's winters are as long and windy as Denver's? The wind in the winter is at least 4 out of 7 days. The cold doesn't bother me near as much as the wind. Winter in Denver, in my opinion, is Mid-November through Mid-April. I know a ton of people will disagree with me, but March and early April are very unpredictable and still windy and cold.

Funyon - I would definitely agree with you that Denver's winters are from about mid-November thru mid-April. At least they were when we lived there. I remember leaving Denver on May 1st in a blizzard, and there was still ice on the streets that hadn't melted off from the first big snowstorm the end of November! That was our first winter there - fortunately the next winters weren't as bad.

Here in Prescott the temps are warmer, so the snow generally melts off the streets within the day (most times it melts as it hits the pavement). Today we had some snow that stuck around until about noon. This has been the first snow (out of about 3 total this year) that actually stayed around for a while. Winters here usually aren't windy, although we did have some really awful wind as this storm came in yesterday. Our windy months are generally May and June (also our 2 really dry months). When I first moved here from Colorado/Nebraska I don't think I noticed the wind but a handful of days. But it's been windier than usual the past two years - I think because of the drought. I've noticed that when it's a wetter year that we don't have much wind. Except for the month or two before monsoon season, I would say the wind is much less usually than the Front Range.

As for the gnats, flies, mosquitos - I think we're pretty spoiled here. They were enough of a problem (along with the wind) back in Denver that we really didn't eat outside much. Here we grill and eat out on our patios all the time. It's not like we never see a gnat or mosquito, but it's really pretty rare (unless you've got some standing water). I don't know if the "misters" down in Phoenix attract them or not. Up here in Prescott we're cool enough that we don't run misters to cool the air.

Of course, Prescott is much smaller than Denver. Think of it as kind of a budding Fort Collins from about 15 years ago. I think our "tri-city" population is about 85,000. We're about 90 minutes from Phoenix. So if we want warmer weather or mucho shopping we can always head there for the day. We're also about 90 minutes away from skiing in Flagstaff (and cooler temps in the summer), and an hour away from Sedona. The big drawback to living here in Prescott is the lack of jobs. Part of that is simply because of the size of the community vs Phoenix. There are some good jobs up here, but they're kind of few and far between. Health care is big up here, and there's some professional & tech jobs, plus lots of lower paying service/retail jobs. My family hasn't had much problem finding good jobs, but I know there's others that have struggled to find something.

[funyon]

Thanks for all the great info. re: Prescott. For some reason, I thought it would be like living in our mountains and never really considered it. I think I will do some research on Prescott, it sounds like it might be the ideal place (smaller, not as hot as Phoenix, not as cold and windy as Denver and not as many bugs).

[WhiteSandsYucca]

Originally Posted by Beena

Relocated to Scottsdale from Denver 14 years ago and will never go back. Sunshine, sunshine, sunshine. You can go months here without seeing a cloud. To me that is priceless. The cold and gloomy freezing weather in Denver was enough to kill a person. The outdoor life here is incredible.

I know what you mean. I'm with you; I love sunny, warm weather, and I would rather take heat than cold. Technically, Denver has around as much sun as Phoenix, yet of course, Denver gets those snowstorms and cold snaps, which I wasn't crazy about, either. Overall, I would rather live in Phoenix, than Denver.

However, I do think Denver is really cool, and offers something different than Phoenix, urbanwise. Denver has that hopping downtown, a central area of focus, complete with ballparks and convention centers, and big hotels. Phoenix, on the other hand, sprawls forever, and I feel is more of a "suburban lifestyle" feeling (spread throughout the entire metro/city, even near downtown). There doesn't seem a real "central focus" there. If there was one, I feel it is located most in that Scottsdale downtown area -- which is really cool I have to say. I also love all the desert botanica -- yuccas, palms, agaves, cacti, desert trees, palms -- and fountains that are an exciting feature of Phoenix.