Phoenix metro is getting too big IMO (Chandler, Tempe: landscaping, neighborhood)

[AZ_Rookie]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

That is because people still supidly semand single family homes, again they are a much poorer use of resources, and require more infastrucure $/resident than an apartment or condo tower, plus they render public transportation basically impossible and force people to use cars

Because everyone doesn't want what you want, they are stupid?... That's an odd point of view

I like rural, I like cars... Basically I like everything you don't. I don't like condo, I don't like apartment - however, I don't feel people that do want that are stupid.

The beauty of our country is - everyone doesn't have to do things the same way... We don't have a system that requires everyone to live the way someone else tells them to (although there are segments that are trying to change that )... That's something you're just going to have to come to terms with.

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by AZ_Rookie

Because everyone doesn't want what you want, they are stupid?... That's an odd point of view

I like rural, I like cars... Basically I like everything you don't. I don't like condo, I don't like apartment - however, I don't feel people that do want that are stupid.

The beauty of our country is - everyone doesn't have to do things the same way... We don't have a system that requires everyone to live the way someone else tells them to (although there are segments that are trying to change that )... That's something you're just going to have to come to terms with.

At least in this area, people with the suburban style, sfh preference in effect have forced their way onto everyone else here, by using government to try to block high rises, mass transit and other things which would make a denser, more sustainable, less car dependent city in favor of the status quo. So people such as myself have to be out there to advocate for progress or it will never happen.

Again, NYC is a historical example. There wasn't always high rises and mass transit there. But the city had to build up as land got more expensive, if Manhattam was still all 3 story brownstones, they would each go for millions of $ a piece. Look at the few sfh's still left in the City of Vancouver, land is so expensive due to high demand, that they go for over $1,000,000 each. That is our future if someone doesn't implement some more density, short of people leaving en masse

[AZ_Rookie]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

At least in this area, people with the suburban style, sfh preference in effect have forced their way onto everyone else here, by using government to try to block high rises, mass transit and other things which would make a denser, more sustainable, less car dependent city in favor of the status quo. So people such as myself have to be out there to advocate for progress or it will never happen.

Again, NYC is a historical example. There wasn't always high rises and mass transit there. But the city had to build up as land got more expensive, if Manhattam was still all 3 story brownstones, they would each go for millions of $ a piece. Look at the few sfh's still left in the City of Vancouver, land is so expensive due to high demand, that they go for over $1,000,000 each. That is our future if someone doesn't implement some more density, short of people leaving en masse

Again - we differ in our opinion and view of the future - and that's fine.

I'm not forcing my opinion on you - and I'm not trying to change yours... You should do the same.

Vote for what you believe in and if you arent satisfied, align yourself with like-minded people. That's what those of us fed up with CA are doing. In my humble opinion, that would be your best choice for happy living.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

At least in this area, people with the suburban style, sfh preference in effect have forced their way onto everyone else here, by using government to try to block high rises, mass transit and other things which would make a denser, more sustainable, less car dependent city in favor of the status quo. So people such as myself have to be out there to advocate for progress or it will never happen.

NIMBYs have been overly vocal and pushy as far as stopping things like highrises and other things ... however, pushing any kind of living style (be it suburban, urban, rural, or whatever) is not the way to accomplish anything. Let the free market decide, and keep the government out of it. The Phoenix area has been a suburban styled mecca for a long time but that is slowly changing. There is more of demand than there used to be for higher density living and less commuting, but there will always be a demand for suburban styled living as well. Different strokes for different folks.

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

NIMBYs have been overly vocal and pushy as far as stopping things like highrises and other things ... however, pushing any kind of living style (be it suburban, urban, rural, or whatever) is not the way to accomplish anything. Let the free market decide, and keep the government out of it. The Phoenix area has been a suburban styled mecca for a long time but that is slowly changing. There is more of demand than there used to be for higher density living and less commuting, but there will always be a demand for suburban styled living as well. Different strokes for different folks.

I tend to agree although I like the aggressive pushes being made by Phoenix and Tempe to build urban areas as of late.

Tempe just seems to be going for it with the lake, light rail, planned street car, the State Farm campus etc. I've enjoyed watching it. Same for Phoenix, getting an ASU campus and upgrading public transportation has been great. ASU has single handedly done more than the City Government could have to attract people to actually live down there.

[asufan]

Originally Posted by AZ_Rookie

Because everyone doesn't want what you want, they are stupid?... That's an odd point of view

I like rural, I like cars... Basically I like everything you don't. I don't like condo, I don't like apartment - however, I don't feel people that do want that are stupid.

The beauty of our country is - everyone doesn't have to do things the same way... We don't have a system that requires everyone to live the way someone else tells them to (although there are segments that are trying to change that )... That's something you're just going to have to come to terms with.

What's not to love about common walls and hearing your neighbors use the can at 3 AM? Not to mention the smells of Indian food from the neighbors below and the domestic disputes from the angry couple . Yeah I'll stupidly take my single family detached home with a private yard and space between my neighbors. Darn I guess I don't get to ride a bus lol.

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by asufan

What's not to love about common walls and hearing your neighbors use the can at 3 AM? Not to mention the smells of Indian food from the neighbors below and the domestic disputes from the angry couple . Yeah I'll stupidly take my single family detached home with a private yard and space between my neighbors. Darn I guess I don't get to ride a bus lol.

Considering I've lived in apartments for a fair bit, I haven't noticed one of these "complaints" you mention.

Anyways, I like your dig at public transit as well, not. Honestly, once a city/metro crosses the 2 million threshold, it is time to start building more density and more public transit. And Greater Phoenix has passed that point twice already.

I've tried explaining this, so I'll do it again. In major cities, if all that is focused on is low density, traffic will get worse, which will cause land values in the core to go up, and will create a domino effect (people priced out of the core move to the next ring out, raising those prices, and so on) if more low density sprawl is encouraged. And eventually, if gasoline goes to $10/gallon, like in Britain, unless you are retired, you won't be laughing then

My point is, for a small town or medium sized city, single family houses work. But in major cities, it creates a lot of problems, mainly traffic and inflationary prices

[maverick974]

Yay....more people that know whats best for me..........

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by maverick974

Yay....more people that know whats best for me..........

Really? I am only pointing out the flaws in suburban sprawl and automobile dependency, and how it seems you can do dense with public transit or you can do car oriented sprawl, but you can't seem to do both. So the snide sarcastic comment wasn't really called for

[asufan]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

Considering I've lived in apartments for a fair bit, I haven't noticed one of these "complaints" you mention.

Anyways, I like your dig at public transit as well, not. Honestly, once a city/metro crosses the 2 million threshold, it is time to start building more density and more public transit. And Greater Phoenix has passed that point twice already.

I've tried explaining this, so I'll do it again. In major cities, if all that is focused on is low density, traffic will get worse, which will cause land values in the core to go up, and will create a domino effect (people priced out of the core move to the next ring out, raising those prices, and so on) if more low density sprawl is encouraged. And eventually, if gasoline goes to $10/gallon, like in Britain, unless you are retired, you won't be laughing then

My point is, for a small town or medium sized city, single family houses work. But in major cities, it creates a lot of problems, mainly traffic and inflationary prices

Thanks, my undergraduate degree was in Urban Planning/Development, I know all about cities. I'm still not in any hurry to get on a bus and if gas goes to $10/gallon that is what I will pay