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were talking about an apartment complex in this thread.
Yes we are. If the OPs apartment has a total of 3 floors (which is how I am reading it) and she is on the 3rd floor, then the roof and attic will influence the air conditioning bill.
Yes we are. If the OPs apartment has a total of 3 floors (which is how I am reading it) and she is on the 3rd floor, then the roof and attic will influence the air conditioning bill.
if there is an attic, or more likely a crawlspace if anything; then ITS GOING to be hot, no matter what. Why would the roof matter? The only thing that would make a difference is if/how much insulation is used to keep it out.
if there is an attic, or more likely a crawlspace if anything; then ITS GOING to be hot, no matter what. Why would the roof matter? The only thing that would make a difference is if/how much insulation is used to keep it out.
For starters, the word "attic" is used by some to describe the area in between the roof and the ceiling (a.k.a. roof space). The amount of insulation is only ONE factor on how much heat penetrates the top floor of the apartment. Things like ventilation, the color of the shingles, shade, as well as specialized heat-reflective material == how an energy efficient a roof is. It all matters as to how much energy radiates inside of the top floor of the apartment. Considering most apartments are designed to hit a price point, it is fair to assume the construction could have taken some shortcuts.
Putting it another way, the cooler the roof space, the cooler the top floor of the apartment. Hence AZjones statement "IT depends on the roof and insulation they are using. Most summer heat actually comes from the attic and not the windows." is relative.
Yes we are. If the OPs apartment has a total of 3 floors (which is how I am reading it) and she is on the 3rd floor, then the roof and attic will influence the air conditioning bill.
I just realized you assumed the OP was a woman.. It must mean you are..
Quote:
Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised
For starters, the word "attic" is used by some to describe the area in between the roof and the ceiling (a.k.a. roof space). The amount of insulation is only ONE factor on how much heat penetrates the top floor of the apartment. Things like ventilation, the color of the shingles, shade, as well as specialized heat-reflective material == how an energy efficient a roof is. It all matters as to how much energy radiates inside of the top floor of the apartment. Considering most apartments are designed to hit a price point, it is fair to assume the construction could have taken some shortcuts.
Putting it another way, the cooler the roof space, the cooler the top floor of the apartment. Hence AZjones statement "IT depends on the roof and insulation they are using. Most summer heat actually comes from the attic and not the windows." is relative.
Which is why you're debating the technicalities of a word, and not the physics of your argument. The color of the shingles?? Get real and stop pulling what ifs out of your thin air. What; do you think that space is going to be air conditioned?? Do you think its going to be cooler than the apt that is air conditioned?? That space, sure even on an apt lets call it the attic, IS GOING TO BE HOT.. There's nothing about that space that is going to make the apt cooler, only not as hot.. In the summer you're talking a difference between 130-150 degrees, not 68-82. Heat reflective material?? Apartments taking shortcuts?? Never; why on Earth wouldn't the apartment construction spend three times as much on materials to save the tenants a few dollars a month on bills they wont see until after they move in??
Also, Wood is a better insulator then glass. If were talking a simple single pain window or a roof with no insulation, then more heat is coming through that window. That's what the blinds are for. Then the next best thing is insulation.
Which is why you're debating the technicalities of a word, and not the physics of your argument. The color of the shingles?? Get real and stop pulling what ifs out of your thin air.
Yes, the color of the roof makes a difference. It is physics!
I just realized you assumed the OP was a woman.. It must mean you are..
I'm really trying to help here so I will spend the time. I didn't assume the OP was a women. When people write, it is common for someone to pick he or she as their personal-pronoun versus the clumsy h/she. I simply stuck with the feminine pronoun. Other writers will alternate using he and she in their writing. Actually I am a he (6'3 and 240 pounds to be exact).
Quote:
Originally Posted by adriver
Which is why you're debating the technicalities of a word, and not the physics of your argument.
I'm not arguing but rather educating. Start typing this in your URL. "Adding insulation in". Google will be autofilled with the words "your attic". When you do, links like this pop up Blown In Insulation Calculator . I attempted to let you know that people interchange the word attic and roof space just as they do Jello versus gelatin or Jet Ski (the brand Kawasaki) versus the proper term personal watercraft. If you were able to more easily follow along, you would have known that ajonesaz didn't actually mean the "attic" (which technically means a storage area). We all know multi dwelling apartments don't technically have "attics".
Quote:
Originally Posted by adriver
Which is why you're debating the technicalities of a word, and not the physics of your argument. The color of the shingles?? Get real and stop pulling what ifs out of your thin air.
I'd recommend googling a topic that is outside your scope of knowledge before you respond any further. See Effects of roofing shingle color on energy efficiency
The 1st sentence: "The color of the shingles you choose for your build can have a significant impact on the building’s energy efficiency." This is actually common knowledge. Ever notice that you get hotter in the sun with a dark shirt?
Quote:
Originally Posted by adriver
That space, sure even on an apt lets call it the attic, IS GOING TO BE HOT.. There's nothing about that space that is going to make the apt cooler, only not as hot..
Sigh... Some more educating. The definition of cold (a noun) is the relative absence of heat. So when someone leaves a refrigerator door open, the cold air isn't escaping but rather the hot air is going into the refrigerator. It feels cool by your feet because the heat is leaving. Therefore the refrigerator has to work harder (higher energy bills) to get back to the desired internal temp. This is the same thing with the "attic" (I had to). When it gets hotter because of things like shingle color, lack of ventilation, shade, or reflectivity the house ramps up through the ceiling of the top floor. Meaning if it is hotter in the airspace, it WILL heat the 3rd floor room (make the room less cool). When you take physics, you will learn that "cool" is simply the absence of heat.
"Radiant barriers are installed in homes -- usually in attics -- primarily to reduce summer heat gain and reduce cooling costs. The barriers consist of a highly reflective material that reflects radiant heat rather than absorbing it. They don't, however, reduce heat conduction like thermal insulation materials.
HOW THEY WORK
Heat travels from a warm area to a cool area by a combination of conduction, convection, and radiation. Heat flows by conduction from a hotter location within a material or assembly to a colder location, like the way a spoon placed in a hot cup of coffee conducts heat through its handle to your hand. Heat transfer by convection occurs when a liquid or gas -- air, for example -- is heated, becomes less dense, and rises. As the liquid or gas cools, it becomes denser and falls. Radiant heat travels in a straight line away from any surface and heats anything solid that absorbs its energy."
Quote:
Originally Posted by adriver
Apartments taking shortcuts?? Never; why on Earth wouldn't the apartment construction spend three times as much on materials to save the tenants a few dollars a month on bills they wont see until after they move in??
Also, Wood is a better insulator then glass. If were talking a simple single pain window or a roof with no insulation, then more heat is coming through that window. That's what the blinds are for. Then the next best thing is insulation.
I could take apart your sentences one by one. But I am done. You are zero for 10 on what you claim to know. This will all become obvious when you take physics and thermodynamics. You have to have a firm understanding of the meaning of conduction, convection, radiation, etc. http://physics.bu.edu/~duffy/py105/n...ttransfer.html While I am not an expert on this topic, I've had to take many of these courses and what I covered is very basic common knowledge.
So I agree (and now you should too):
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajonesaz
IT depends on the roof and insulation they are using. Most summer heat actually comes from the attic and not the windows.
. "She" gets it!
Last edited by MN-Born-n-Raised; 02-28-2016 at 06:35 AM..
I'm really trying to help here so I will spend the time. I didn't assume the OP was a women. When people write, it is common for someone to pick he or she as their personal-pronoun versus the clumsy h/she. I simply stuck with the feminine pronoun. Other writers will alternate using he and she in their writing. Actually I am a he (6'3 and 240 pounds to be exact).
I'm not arguing but rather educating. Start typing this in your URL. "Adding insulation in". Google will be autofilled with the words "your attic". When you do, links like this pop up Blown In Insulation Calculator . I attempted to let you know that people interchange the word attic and roof space just as they do Jello versus gelatin or Jet Ski (the brand Kawasaki) versus the proper term personal watercraft. If you were able to more easily follow along, you would have known that ajonesaz didn't actually mean the "attic" (which technically means a storage area). We all know multi dwelling apartments don't technically have "attics".
I'd recommend googling a topic that is outside your scope of knowledge before you respond any further. See Effects of roofing shingle color on energy efficiency
The 1st sentence: "The color of the shingles you choose for your build can have a significant impact on the building’s energy efficiency." This is actually common knowledge. Ever notice that you get hotter in the sun with a dark shirt?
Sigh... Some more educating. The definition of cold (a noun) is the relative absence of heat. So when someone leaves a refrigerator door open, the cold air isn't escaping but rather the hot air is going into the refrigerator. It feels cool by your feet because the heat is leaving. Therefore the refrigerator has to work harder (higher energy bills) to get back to the desired internal temp. This is the same thing with the "attic" (I had to). When it gets hotter because of things like shingle color, lack of ventilation, shade, or reflectivity the house ramps up through the ceiling of the top floor. Meaning if it is hotter in the airspace, it WILL heat the 3rd floor room (make the room less cool). When you take physics, you will learn that "cool" is simply the absence of heat.
"Radiant barriers are installed in homes -- usually in attics -- primarily to reduce summer heat gain and reduce cooling costs. The barriers consist of a highly reflective material that reflects radiant heat rather than absorbing it. They don't, however, reduce heat conduction like thermal insulation materials.
HOW THEY WORK
Heat travels from a warm area to a cool area by a combination of conduction, convection, and radiation. Heat flows by conduction from a hotter location within a material or assembly to a colder location, like the way a spoon placed in a hot cup of coffee conducts heat through its handle to your hand. Heat transfer by convection occurs when a liquid or gas -- air, for example -- is heated, becomes less dense, and rises. As the liquid or gas cools, it becomes denser and falls. Radiant heat travels in a straight line away from any surface and heats anything solid that absorbs its energy."
I could take apart your sentences one by one. But I am done. You are zero for 10 on what you claim to know. This will all become obvious when you take physics and thermodynamics. While I am not an expert on this topic, I've had to take many of these courses and what I covered is the most basic common knowledge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mightymatty
Hi, guys.
I'm moving to Arizona next month and I already found a descent apartment to rent, which is 3rd floor. I didn't really care a thing because that was the only unit I could rent at that time, but now there has been more options such as 2nd floor and 1st floor.
I would avoid both 1st and 2nd floor units since I am VERY sensitive to noise of footsteps. But I was told usually 3rd floor units in Arizona get much more bills for A/C than 1st or 2nd floor units since the sun hits 3rd floor first.
I have never lived in a hot area before, so I can't really imagine if that's true to even consider. If it does get much hotter, how much usually did you or do you pay for A/C?
Thanks, guys.
Now let me educate you; on the point of this thread..
its about an APARTMENT.. get over yourself.. None of what you copied from google matters in this thread or to me.. I wasn't saying any of that wasn't true, I was saying it doesn't matter HERE...
Now let me educate you; on the point of this thread..
its about an APARTMENT.. get over yourself.. None of what you copied from google matters in this thread or to me.. I wasn't saying any of that wasn't true, I was saying it doesn't matter HERE...
Electric bills and the roof design DOES matter on an apartment . I linked a thread via google so that you understood I didn't pull the concept out of thin-air (your words). Evidently you agree you were wrong. It's o.k. I too am often wrong on topics that I have never studied. But I am smart enough to research (with the help of google) before I put my foot in my mouth.
Inquiring minds what to know... Why do you assume the laws of thermodynamics do not apply to apartment roofs and only single family home roofs? OF COURSE THEY DO!
It is why I have always said, "He" gets it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajonesaz
IT depends on the roof and insulation they are using. Most summer heat actually comes from the attic and not the windows.
Last edited by MN-Born-n-Raised; 02-28-2016 at 07:26 AM..
Electric bills and the roof design DOES matter on an apartment . I linked a thread via google so that you understood I didn't pull the concept out of thin-air (your words). Evidently you agree you were wrong. It's o.k. I too am often wrong on topics that I have never studied. But I am smart enough to research (with the help of google) before I put my foot in my mouth.
Inquiring minds what to know... Why do you assume the laws of thermodynamics do not apply to apartment roofs and only single family home roofs? OF COURSE THEY DO!
It is why I have always said, "He" gets it!
You're twisting words, and you just flat out don't have a clue you're arguing semantics when I'm trying to answer the OP. You must by now you're wrong at this point, because you're not even countering what I say. You're twisting it to try to make me sound wrong. You're arguing to get the last word in, and not helping the thread, me or yourself.
I wont use what I can track down online, Unlike what you've done so far, I'm gonna use a little "common sense" (that's one you should put on your "to google list"). So here goes; just to answer your asinine question; AGAIN, they don't apply in here... because... Have you ever been to an apartment?? Do you understand the basic principles of building costs?? Do you have any clue that apartments that need to have this question asked are going to be built with a cheap/general build... Do you get that all this crap you're trying to argue doesn't matter in here, because that's not the way apartment complexes are built?? Go and google some apartments go and check them out... They will be very similar to ALL THE OTHER ONES. None of this, that you're trying to feel high and mighty about is considered when building an apartment, and no it doesn't matter in this thread. Get off your horse, on answer the thread, don't answer what you can google. Frankly I was trying to respond to this thread, and at this point you are clearly just being a complete jackass. Get lost, get a clue, get a life.
You're twisting words, and you just flat out don't have a clue you're arguing semantics when I'm trying to answer the OP. You must by now you're wrong at this point, because you're not even countering what I say. You're twisting it to try to make me sound wrong. You're arguing to get the last word in, and not helping the thread, me or yourself.
I wont use what I can track down online, Unlike what you've done so far, I'm gonna use a little "common sense" (that's one you should put on your "to google list"). So here goes; just to answer your asinine question; AGAIN, they don't apply in here... because... Have you ever been to an apartment?? Do you understand the basic principles of building costs?? Do you have any clue that apartments that need to have this question asked are going to be built with a cheap/general build... Do you get that all this crap you're trying to argue doesn't matter in here, because that's not the way apartment complexes are built?? Go and google some apartments go and check them out... They will be very similar to ALL THE OTHER ONES. None of this, that you're trying to feel high and mighty about is considered when building an apartment, and no it doesn't matter in this thread. Get off your horse, on answer the thread, don't answer what you can google. Frankly I was trying to respond to this thread, and at this point you are clearly just being a complete jackass. Get lost, get a clue, get a life.
But you are wrong. On every single point you attempted to educate people on. Even the use of he/she when someone doesn't know a persons gender (pro-nouns). Fact: Roof colors matter. Reflectivity matters. Shade matters. Heat rises. The temp in the roof space or attic matters. I didn't need to google any of this (this is common sense to my technical mind) but rather I attempted to show how non-technical you are (a.k.a. you are wrong). Roofs matters on electrical bills in an apartment as well as a single family home. Hence:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajonesaz
IT depends on the roof and insulation they are using. Most summer heat actually comes from the attic and not the windows.
While we are on the topic. ON average, apartments don't care to invest money on energy efficiency unless it the utilities are included in the rent. But for the OP, "HE" pays for electricity. I've very sure there are some incredibly energy efficient apartments. But all too often price (rent charged) is paramount over spending $$'s on energy efficiency. It's business. That simply means they put the money where it matters; reducing maintenance and jewelry (cosmetics). But if you are a renter, you never studied the ROI or energy efficient products. I have with intensity.
I'm not bothered by the fact that you need to call me a "jackass". Hey, 1/2 the world is below average intelligence and I was just trying to help. Now I didn't need to google this but I am pasting it in so you know I didn't make it up Human Intelligence: The Bell Curve . I was just trying to help! Absorb, learn, and don't take it personal.
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Apartments taking shortcuts?? 
Never; why on Earth wouldn't the apartment construction spend three times as much on materials to save the tenants a few dollars a month on bills they wont see until after they move in?? 
