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Old 03-30-2016, 02:19 PM
 
15 posts, read 26,573 times
Reputation: 46

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I am originally from the San Francisco Bay Area and have lived in the Phoenix / Scottsdale / Tempe area for five years now. My first job out of college here was working in sales for one of the local professional sports teams followed by working in sales for a series of third party logistics companies.

Something I noticed rather quickly was just how high the turnover is for these inside sales jobs out here in the Phoenix area while at the same time tremendously lacking any real CAREER type of opportunities. It is almost borderline criminal how some of these companies treat their employees and I think a lot of it has to do with Arizona being a right to work state. I have seen employees let go for some incredibly childish reasons, up to and including being a fan of a rival NFL team that a manager hated, as well as jealousy over attention from female coworkers. The whole experience has left a terrible taste in my mouth especially when speaking with friends and family who live in the Bay Area and make six figures or more working in sales.

I have searched far and wide and it seems that 90% of the opportunities in the Phoenix area are entry level positions offering $35k base plus some shady commission structure that 99% of the office will never obtain.

My real question is where are all of the real career opportunities out here? I refuse to believe that Scottsdale's economy is based on cold calling call centers that are essentially sketchy pyramid schemes but that is what my 5 years out here has led me to believe. Coupled with service industry workers, bartenders, waitresses etc.

Yelp, Zenefits, Weebly, Realtor.com, the list goes on and on. It's as if every company in the Bay Area has decided to outsource their sales department to Arizona like it is the new age India. Where are the decent paying opportunities in the Phoenix metro? The idea of buying a house, getting married and raising a family while being a drone in an AZ call center is beyond terrifying and highly impractical yet the number of opportunities available to break the cycle seem nonexistent. The internet job boards for the Phoenix area seem as barren as the desert itself. Is Phoenix known for lacking any real opportunities and bottom basement salaries? All I kept hearing about five years ago was how fast the Phoenix area was growing and how it is the fifth largest metro in the country. When you finally do stumble across someone who grew up here they seem to think it's boom town. When speaking to fellow transplant coworkers, they already have one foot out the door for a higher paying opportunity in another part of the country and are on their way out as quick as they came in.

I must say, for being the fifth largest metro in the country you would think it would have a stronger economy and much more educated population. I have found the complete opposite to be the case. Perhaps thats because I keep comparing it to where I grew up in California where over 50% of the population has a Bachelors Degree compared to under 25% of the Phoenix area. I want to make it clear that this is not an embittered attack on Phoenix. There is a reason why so many people retire here, the weather is great 9 months of the year and housing is cheap. I just want opinions on why this economy is built on customer service jobs and call centers and what are industries worth looking at out here for an educated individual to have a shot at making a real living.
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Old 03-30-2016, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Raleigh-Durham NC
902 posts, read 1,093,655 times
Reputation: 1333
your experience is typical for Phoenix

yes Phoenix is a large city with 5 million people in the metro area,(1 million of them are "undocumented workers")

most large cities have large salaries, phoenix is the exception

big companies are moving their call centers to Phx for the cheap slave labor

India has nothing on phoenix

I was a Supervisor at one of those call centers, my salary with bonuses was $28,000, the 100 people under me made much less

My salary was considered so generous for that position,that when i gave notice they had dozens of applicants and replaced me during my 2 week notice

Last edited by azsportpilot; 03-30-2016 at 03:35 PM..
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Old 03-30-2016, 02:50 PM
 
15 posts, read 26,573 times
Reputation: 46
Sorry to hear it. I saw three supervisors get replaced during my tenure of working in inside sales in Scottsdale for a large publicly traded, multibillion dollar company just so they could save a buck. It ultimately back fired a few times due to the replacement not having the skills needed to be successful.

So what is an industry to pursue out here to have even a slight quality of life? Seems like there is money to be made working in Real Estate due to how easy it is to qualify for a mortgage out here regardless of whether the buyer has the income to make it feasible.
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Old 03-30-2016, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
445 posts, read 511,539 times
Reputation: 888
The challenge you're facing isn't limited to only Phoenix. Recent college grads and those without real-world experience in their intended field are finding it increasingly difficult to get their careers started all over the country. This is one area where stats about the "improved" nationwide job market are misleading. There are plenty of jobs out there. But professional jobs in specialized fields aren't as readily available these days, and the ones that are available are more difficult to obtain, especially for candidates who are just starting their careers. The spike of debt-ridden twenty-somethings who are still living at home and working in the service industries despite a college degree is a symptom of this.

Sales and/or call center jobs tend to be among the few professions where employers aren't requiring a ton of experience. As a result, you're seeing more and more bright, educated people turn to these jobs when they inevitably struggle to find work in whatever field they obtained their degree in. This just increases the competition for these jobs and allows employers to keep the pay and opportunities limited without compromising the quality and skillsets of their employees. But you're right in that these are jobs that are largely devoid of opportunities for a career, and there is a new generation of highly educated young workers in these jobs that are going to struggle to pull themselves up into other opportunities as they grow older.

I don't have a good answer unfortunately. But I'd be willing to bet that your experience wouldn't be much different outside Arizona.
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Old 03-30-2016, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Chandler, AZ
4,056 posts, read 5,073,277 times
Reputation: 6120
Get the heck out of inside sales and start applying for Account Manager and Account Director positions. Find an industry that you like and find out how to sell it. Plenty of people are making 6 figure income in Sales and no the commission structures aren't out of reach.

That being said, AZ is a third tier market. Enterprise selling here is not easy, 9 times out of 10 the decision makers are elsewhere and your prospect is someone else's account. Depending on your product, you will find there are a few whales in this market but your book of business is going to be a lot of small deals adding up to your number so you are always on the look out for new logos. No one ever said sales was easy...people think it is and those are the people you see churning at the office.
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Old 03-30-2016, 04:24 PM
 
9,576 posts, read 7,240,414 times
Reputation: 13996
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger21 View Post
I must say, for being the fifth largest metro in the country you would think it would have a stronger economy and much more educated population.
While Phoenix may be the 5th or 6th largest city in the US, depending on who you ask, the Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale Metroplex is only the 12th largest metro area, which is still not too shabby, but nowhere near the 5th largest metro area, which is Houston. And the education level might have a lot to do with the demographics/location of the area/state.

Metropolitan Statistical Areas
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Old 03-30-2016, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Sunshine Coast, QLD
3,674 posts, read 3,018,002 times
Reputation: 5466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger21 View Post
I am originally from the San Francisco Bay Area and have lived in the Phoenix / Scottsdale / Tempe area for five years now. My first job out of college here was working in sales for one of the local professional sports teams followed by working in sales for a series of third party logistics companies.

Something I noticed rather quickly was just how high the turnover is for these inside sales jobs out here in the Phoenix area while at the same time tremendously lacking any real CAREER type of opportunities. It is almost borderline criminal how some of these companies treat their employees and I think a lot of it has to do with Arizona being a right to work state. I have seen employees let go for some incredibly childish reasons, up to and including being a fan of a rival NFL team that a manager hated, as well as jealousy over attention from female coworkers. The whole experience has left a terrible taste in my mouth especially when speaking with friends and family who live in the Bay Area and make six figures or more working in sales.

I have searched far and wide and it seems that 90% of the opportunities in the Phoenix area are entry level positions offering $35k base plus some shady commission structure that 99% of the office will never obtain.

My real question is where are all of the real career opportunities out here? I refuse to believe that Scottsdale's economy is based on cold calling call centers that are essentially sketchy pyramid schemes but that is what my 5 years out here has led me to believe. Coupled with service industry workers, bartenders, waitresses etc.

Yelp, Zenefits, Weebly, Realtor.com, the list goes on and on. It's as if every company in the Bay Area has decided to outsource their sales department to Arizona like it is the new age India. Where are the decent paying opportunities in the Phoenix metro? The idea of buying a house, getting married and raising a family while being a drone in an AZ call center is beyond terrifying and highly impractical yet the number of opportunities available to break the cycle seem nonexistent. The internet job boards for the Phoenix area seem as barren as the desert itself. Is Phoenix known for lacking any real opportunities and bottom basement salaries? All I kept hearing about five years ago was how fast the Phoenix area was growing and how it is the fifth largest metro in the country. When you finally do stumble across someone who grew up here they seem to think it's boom town. When speaking to fellow transplant coworkers, they already have one foot out the door for a higher paying opportunity in another part of the country and are on their way out as quick as they came in.

I must say, for being the fifth largest metro in the country you would think it would have a stronger economy and much more educated population. I have found the complete opposite to be the case. Perhaps thats because I keep comparing it to where I grew up in California where over 50% of the population has a Bachelors Degree compared to under 25% of the Phoenix area. I want to make it clear that this is not an embittered attack on Phoenix. There is a reason why so many people retire here, the weather is great 9 months of the year and housing is cheap. I just want opinions on why this economy is built on customer service jobs and call centers and what are industries worth looking at out here for an educated individual to have a shot at making a real living.
Well to be fair, I don;t think it's just a Phoenix thing. I lived 5 years in Tulsa, and from what I experienced, Tulsa is the call-center capitol of the world. What you're describing fits Tulsa to a T as well. Companies and folks there think that $10 an hour is LeBron James money!! I fear what you're describing will soon be all over the US. So glad to live where workers get paid decently and can;t get fired at the drop of a hat.
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Old 03-30-2016, 05:19 PM
 
1,567 posts, read 1,940,695 times
Reputation: 2374
What is your degree in? You will never make a lot of money selling stuff over the phone no matter where you live. I would find a different profession.


But I do agree that the Phx area has an abundance of call centers and they all pay crap. Good jobs exist here if you are in the right profession.
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Old 03-30-2016, 05:27 PM
 
15 posts, read 26,573 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajonesaz View Post
What is your degree in? You will never make a lot of money selling stuff over the phone no matter where you live. I would find a different profession.


But I do agree that the Phx area has an abundance of call centers and they all pay crap. Good jobs exist here if you are in the right profession.
What would be considered the right profession / industry for a "good job" in the Valley?
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Old 03-30-2016, 05:32 PM
 
848 posts, read 957,363 times
Reputation: 1346
I moved from Silicon Valley too (Santa Clara native) two years ago. I am in software development and was more or less fresh from college (although I was 32 at the time). I have found opportunities to be bountiful and my salary is fantastic (although my salary does seem to be an exception - as a whole, companies tend to be pretty insulting with software development salaries in Phoenix). Outside of software development however, your experience seems to be typical. It seems to be a matter of finding that diamond in the rough.
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