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Old 05-23-2009, 02:23 PM
 
3,886 posts, read 6,373,992 times
Reputation: 1428

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It's not that "people" aren't concerned, it's just that it's not what draws in our population here to Phoenix. We grow despite our schools reputation and Phoenix can afford to do this because we have no snow and cheaper housing, thats what draws our citizens.
Cities and States in colder, wetter areas of the country have to have things like "great schools", "we rank in the top 10 in education", colleges like Harvard, etc because they have to sell their state despite being expensive to live in or having not so wonderful weather. It's the reason people choose to shovel the snow, etc. because it's worth the education, or services or whatever. A few might just "love the snow" but usually they put up with it for other things. We put up with a crappy rep for education and try to ignore it for sun and cheaper housing.

If it didn't work, AZ would put a lot more pressure on making our system rank higher don't you think?

I am just surprised when people expect it all here, I know it won't happen, so why don't they? People tell me all the time I'm stupid to leave Phoenix, the home of the sun, to some place like MA. I'm not moving there for weather, I'm moving there for their schools and other services. I know there won't be "no snow" to shovel or a really cheap house in a great area. So,, you pick and choose what's important to you. Searching for that one school here that won't be "lumped in" to our bad rep is just irritating and impossible. Private or not, it's still located in our state,, and it comes with the rep. As fcorrals would state: JUST SAYIN!
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Old 05-23-2009, 02:28 PM
 
3,886 posts, read 6,373,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Beasley View Post
In Arizona we do have good teachers, and some great schools, and all are underpaid in my opinion, but our system is needs a total rehab inh the screening process, especially concerning with all the teachers lately that have been molesting our kids. The women are getting as bad as the men.
We have good teachers, they have nothing to do with it unfortunately. I would never want to be a teacher here because if I left to apply somewhere else, I would be from the state that ranks last in education. Sad really, but true. It's just like any other job.
I might be a wiz kid at customer service but it would make a difference on my app if I just left Dillards as apposed to Walmart, depending on where I was applying I suppose, but assuming I was applying to go forward and not backward.

How many teachers do you think we get that say, wow, I can't wait to go and teach in the state that ranks "worst" in the country as far as education goes? Um, not many. A few diehards but not a whole bunch.
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Old 05-23-2009, 02:52 PM
 
1,344 posts, read 1,297,091 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twiggy View Post
How many teachers do you think we get that say, wow, I can't wait to go and teach in the state that ranks "worst" in the country as far as education goes? Um, not many. A few diehards but not a whole bunch.
You get good teachers and bad teachers everywhere. There are some idealistic and hard working teachers here just as there are some shmucks in Massachusetts, I can tell you after 25 years there.

I think we have a problem with a whole lot of retirees moving here who no longer have a stake in K-12 education. Plus, a lot of very pragmatic, conservative people who believe in education as vocational training and not out of some idealistic beliefs in uplifting the populace.

Personally I think we should go for the highest quality education possible, to draw affluent people to the state and generally make the state a richer and better place to live.
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Old 05-23-2009, 03:15 PM
 
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I agree blister, we do GET some good teachers but for other reasons. We don't DRAW them and it's not hard to get a job here in that field because we aren't that picky. They don't look here to teach as a for thought though, so why do it with your kids? We have plenty of kids out of AZ that land successful jobs despite our rep.

We get teachers for the same reasons I stated, like sun, cheap housing, their spouses job, live here and can't get out kind of things. I never said our schools were bad either, it's just our "rep" that is bad. We have a bad ranking overall (for many reasons) but your still going to be from here when you go to a private school and you will still have that rep same as we all do.

That was my point, you know the rep, your kids might do better here then some kid in MA but it seems the parents feel guilty because they just moved their kids to the "stupid state" so they try and search out the "best" school here. There are a lot of decent ones here, in most suburban and inner cities. Relax, just put your kid in school and enjoy the reasons you did move here. You wouldn't be here if they weren't the most important things to you. If you are that uncomfortable with the idea of your child going to school in AZ because of our bad rep. then guess what? You shouldn't do it. Or, like everyone told me, then you should MOVE.....when you can of course, it's also a bit harder to get out of a "cheap" state and into a more "expensive" one, but with time and savings one can accomplish it. lol I have listened to the people, ha ha, it makes sense, no?

AZ won't change it just for the sake of making it a richer fuller experience. lol It will change it if we stop attracting people because of our bad rep, but we don't and probably won't. If you want a city that tries to support the education system you will have to move to one who's lively hood depends on it. Then, and only then will you have it.
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Old 05-23-2009, 03:17 PM
 
8,165 posts, read 9,843,117 times
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actually AZ has done a really good job recruiting the midwest for teachers - teachers who moved here not because of weather or anything like that, but because they were tired of fighting 100 applicants for 1 opening

also it's pretty universal when families move to an area they search out schools .... about every state on here has questions about schools
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Old 05-23-2009, 03:26 PM
 
3,886 posts, read 6,373,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post
actually AZ has done a really good job recruiting the midwest for teachers - teachers who moved here not because of weather or anything like that, but because they were tired of fighting 100 applicants for 1 opening

also it's pretty universal when families move to an area they search out schools .... about every state on here has questions about schools
True, but we do have the rep they site as a reason first, and they do seem to panic more on here, understandably. I shouldn't have been so irritated but I get this question a lot everywhere. They come, then panic, then drive 20 miles to a private school which makes their kid stressed and their life hell. I dunno, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think it matters a whole lot.
Moving to a state with a good ranking just allows the parent to relax a little. If this is what is important to them. It is to me, so I would be more relaxed shoveling snow with good ranking, and less enjoying the sun without one.

One of the reasons I stated above, it's easy to get a job here, we recruit because it's not a first, second, or third choice for a lot of teachers because of our ranking. lol This too, is understandable.

The point is however that it doesn't really make a heap of difference which school you put them in as long as it looks safe, clean, and friendly. Private schools can make big buck on a state with our kind of rep. sadly they aren't any better than a lot of public schools.
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Old 05-23-2009, 03:45 PM
 
8,165 posts, read 9,843,117 times
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i can agree with that
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Old 05-23-2009, 04:18 PM
 
385 posts, read 796,999 times
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It sounds like we have some NEA members in here, that's why no one pointed out that the cost of living in Arizona is much lower than the places with the higher salaries. Compare with Portland, Boise, Las Vegas, or Utah, or New Mexico. They are higher relative to the rest of the workforce in Arizona. Money doesn't grow on trees. This would be the absolute worst time to raise taxes. It would just hurt demand that much more, generating even less revenue.
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Old 05-23-2009, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
3,995 posts, read 6,292,229 times
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Arizona is an educational anomaly. The education system itself is under-funded when compared to other states. This gives the state a bad reputation. Also, Arizona is the state with a high drop out rate among a specific, and significant portion of the population. The latino community, in which I am a member, has a crisis on its hands. Even though there are cultural differences between multigenerational American Hispanics and newer immigrants, there are commonalities that should be taken advantage of to better the educational attainment of new Hispanic immigrants.

Arizona is witness to one of the highest latino drop-out rates and teen pregnancy rates in the country. The white, non-Hispanic dropout rate lingers around 6% while the latino drop out rate hovers over 21%, a huge difference. This makes for a dismal picture of education in Arizona.

However, SAT scores and test scores that are used to measure academic success across the U.S. are generally higher in Arizona's school districts. This thread is similar to one that was very heated last year in which a ton of evidence was produced that quantified the problems in Arizona in relation to the Latino population. There needs to be a cultural paradigm shift in that segment of the population in order to advance educational success for ALL groups in this state.
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Old 05-26-2009, 07:42 AM
 
173 posts, read 422,033 times
Reputation: 55
Parents involvment is important. Also, we have to remember kids spend 6 hours a day in school. I am concerned that school is not challenging at all here in AZ. Those A+ as my kids school reports may not mean that much. I check my kids home work daily. Schools are just too easy for most kids. It is important to pick up a good school for my kids. I am good at math, chem and physics. I have to rely on school on subjects like writing and music etc.
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