Woaahhh, culture shocked, Phoenix is much larger than i thought

[Dport7674]

Before visiting Phoenix last Dec. I had always assumed that Scottsdale, Mesa etc. we're separate cities that you had to drive to get to.

I knew they weren't as far as let's say Tucson, but I had no idea they were all one big city basically.

[sexxxcblac]

Originally Posted by BIG CATS

I agree with a lot of what you say, but you're basing your assault on me based simply on a photo I shared. We all moved to Phoenix because we saw something that captivated us. For me it was the desert. I fell in love with the desert when we first vacationed here almost 15 years ago now. I didn't plan on moving here initially, so we visited every year for almost a decade. I know what I was getting into moving here. Im sure the vast majority of those living here did the same.


Another HUGE factor of my moving here was how I loved being so close to nature. I can be in the Phoenix Mountains in mere minutes. To the McDowells in 15. That was a HUGE draw for me. And all these years later I still hike them at least twice a month, even in summer. I know just how vastly different PHX is from NYC, and I wouldn't ever compare the two unless someone from PHX is trying to put itself on the same playing field as NYC. At that point they need a verbal slapdown and a massive reality check. That's what I was doing with my photo. PHX isn't dense. It just isn't. Its growing, and in many ways in the right direction, but calling PHX dense is where we have to correct people. Anyone from a larger, older, more established city would NEVER call this place dense. To those of us who relocated from said larger cities, Phoenix is less dense than most of the suburbs we came from.

BIG CATS is that you ????????????? No way.
Where did this kind and gentle side come from ? I'm going back sleep.When I wake up I will read this again, I have to be dreaming....

[Java Jolt]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Phoenix is following the same growth pattern as LA, if you look at LA in the 50's or 60's Phoenix looks quite similar.


I would expect in 50 years (assuming growth stays high) we can expect to see densities similar to LA (same kind of history, same kind of environment and development patterns) however there are some differences going forward that LA and Phoenix both dealt with that are changing.


1. Social attitudes and market forces are preferring more density and less sprawl, for whatever reason this trend is the reversal of traditional attitudes over the last 50-60 years. This is good for Phoenix because it means we can hope to have a denser core than LA had sooner.


2. transportation is going through a major paradigm shift both in attitude of consumers and tech. Western cities were all built on the idea of independent personal autos. This is changing, the main from of transportation in the future could be a combination of ride sharing and self driving cars. Phoenix and Arizona have begun to have major investments in transportation infrastructure, the light rail is a relative success and is expanding, the state has begun planning for heavy inter-city rail and if the federal government/elon musk built their high speed transportation over the next 20-30 years the way people and goods get around will change dramatically. The need for sprawl and highways and parking lots may shrink considerably over the coming decades.


I see you seem to fall into a few odd traps. For one you feel the need to compare cities with centuries of history and development to phoenix which was little more than a collection of farm towns 30 years ago. and two you think bigger means better. I think new York, while cool, is a disgusting place. Chicago I find nice and Hong Kong I found in-hospitable. You seem to give no value to the environment of the place, a big part of Phoenix and the local culture is being close to nature. that attitude does not lend itself to heavy dense development in general. It is also home to many millions of east coast expats who wanted SPACE they don't want to be in Brooklyn. If they did, they wouldn't have moved.


there is a lot more to a city and why one would like it or live there than "it looks good in pictures" Phoenix is my home, that's an unquantifiable factor for me. Its in a culture vastly different in most respects than the dense cities of the east coast. If wide open spaces sunny weather and a lazie fair attitude isn't your thing, you aren't going to like it.

Very well-written.

Phoenix and Los Angeles are similar in the way they grew and expanded rapidly on the post-war growth model which is largely vehicle-oriented.

The difference is Los Angeles just got too big, Phoenix is big enough as it is but it's a newer city and can learn from the mistakes Los Angeles made before it's too late.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Phoenix is following the same growth pattern as LA, if you look at LA in the 50's or 60's Phoenix looks quite similar.


I would expect in 50 years (assuming growth stays high) we can expect to see densities similar to LA (same kind of history, same kind of environment and development patterns) however there are some differences going forward that LA and Phoenix both dealt with that are changing.


1. Social attitudes and market forces are preferring more density and less sprawl, for whatever reason this trend is the reversal of traditional attitudes over the last 50-60 years. This is good for Phoenix because it means we can hope to have a denser core than LA had sooner.


2. transportation is going through a major paradigm shift both in attitude of consumers and tech. Western cities were all built on the idea of independent personal autos. This is changing, the main from of transportation in the future could be a combination of ride sharing and self driving cars. Phoenix and Arizona have begun to have major investments in transportation infrastructure, the light rail is a relative success and is expanding, the state has begun planning for heavy inter-city rail and if the federal government/elon musk built their high speed transportation over the next 20-30 years the way people and goods get around will change dramatically. The need for sprawl and highways and parking lots may shrink considerably over the coming decades.


I see you seem to fall into a few odd traps. For one you feel the need to compare cities with centuries of history and development to phoenix which was little more than a collection of farm towns 30 years ago. and two you think bigger means better. I think new York, while cool, is a disgusting place. Chicago I find nice and Hong Kong I found in-hospitable. You seem to give no value to the environment of the place, a big part of Phoenix and the local culture is being close to nature. that attitude does not lend itself to heavy dense development in general. It is also home to many millions of east coast expats who wanted SPACE they don't want to be in Brooklyn. If they did, they wouldn't have moved.


there is a lot more to a city and why one would like it or live there than "it looks good in pictures" Phoenix is my home, that's an unquantifiable factor for me. Its in a culture vastly different in most respects than the dense cities of the east coast. If wide open spaces sunny weather and a lazie fair attitude isn't your thing, you aren't going to like it.

Very well said and it's actually odd to me that people come here seeking something different then where they left yet endlessly complain about how this side of the country isn't setup and built exactly like the area they left. How boring of a world would we be in if every place was exactly the same?

Phoenix has a lot to offer and as I continually point out on here most of the bias opinions tossed around hold little truth and digging a little deeper paints a much different picture.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by BIG CATS

At that point they need a verbal slapdown and a massive reality check. That's what I was doing with my photo. PHX isn't dense.

The problem is your "slapdown" on this thread is the result of you taking a comment out of context and going off on some tangent that has nothing to do with the subject. I pointed out that Phoenix does have some denser sections to someone who said there is absolutely nothing dense here. I then pointed out another misnomer about Phoenix, which is that as a region we're denser then most people think, almost on par with Chicago and more dense then some places that are so well known for density. Nobody ever said downtown Phoenix was as dense as Chicago, you just skewed a statement to support your "slapdown."

[BIG CATS]

Originally Posted by locolife

The problem is your "slapdown" on this thread is the result of you taking a comment out of context and going off on some tangent that has nothing to do with the subject. I pointed out that Phoenix does have some denser sections to someone who said there is absolutely nothing dense here. I then pointed out another misnomer about Phoenix, which is that as a region we're denser then most people think, almost on par with Chicago and more dense then some places that are so well known for density. Nobody ever said downtown Phoenix was as dense as Chicago, you just skewed a statement to support your "slapdown."

You showed a few pictures of downtown to support your claim that Phoenix is dense. Dude, no offense, just... don't do that again. hahaha PHX is not dense. Not even in the slightest sense of the word. Places like Phoenix, Providence, Tulsa, etc, have weak downtowns, and that's ok. Many people relocate to PHX to escape the big city craziness, and I find driving through downtown PHX calming to me. The same cannot be said in NYC or LA or CHI. Those cities I avoided driving like the plague. Even walking around is stressful. PHX gives me a sense of peace, and its all because its not crazy downtown. Its busier in Scottsdale than it is in Phoenix! lol

[toosie]

This is not the place. Thread closed