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One restaurant closed while 90 have opened in the last few years and 1 company is shifting "some number" of jobs that don't even really know yet and that's all you can focus on? Yes, Chase moving jobs and Cooperstown closing does suck but my guess is Chase knows what best for themselves and this follows suit with what they've done elsewhere across the country, Chase jobs are also leaving Manhattan in droves for Jersey and Brooklyn. What we need downtown are jobs for people who want to live downtown and that's where we've been having success, more of that is what I'm in favor of.
What we need are higher paying corporate jobs ... and yes, it would be great if more of those jobs would be right downtown and if people would live closer to work. Regardless, it doesn't help when one of the largest employers in the Phoenix area is going to move jobs out of the main tower downtown to a suburban location in yet another bland office park away from eateries and anything walkable. Not only that, but the Chase Tower is right on the light rail line, and there are employees who rely on this or the bus system for commuting to & from their jobs. The new location is not on any light rail line, has more limited bus service, and is going to be a longer commute for many employees. How is that best for them?
It's not only Chase, but all these other large companies like USAA, Avnet, Petsmart, Godaddy, Paypal, American Express, etc. with either HQs or regional offices here which aren't in the central core where they should be, but instead they're housed in the same kind of suburban office parks which require long commutes for a lot of employees. If these firms were encouraged to relocate downtown along with all the ones you listed, that alone would create the need for more office space, and likely stimulate more construction in the form of highrises for these companies. That would not only enhance the skyline, but it would create a demand for even more restaurants & shops to move in, and also be an incentive for more people to live in a more central location.
Some people are content with a few generic looking, cheaply built low or midrise buildings in the central core, and a bunch of small businesses, but sorry to say that's not the way you grow a downtown area in a large city and make it world class. That would probably work just fine in small cities like Flagstaff or Prescott, but not Phoenix! It's high time we grow up and quit acting so small townish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by locolife
Google didn't land in Silicon Valley as the gorilla it is today, nor did Apple, Microsoft, Amazon etc... for the most part they grew where they are and became the giants we know today. Large companies do occasionally move HQ but it's rare and usually the result of an acquisition or merger of sorts.
This is true for the most part, but there are some exceptions. Greyhound and Dial Corporation moved to Phoenix from Chicago in the 1970s and were headquartered on Central Avenue for roughly 20 years ... until they decided to move out to north Scottsdale in the 1990s, lost a good share of their employee base, and ended up moving to CT. And let's try not to be like Silicon Valley. I realize tech jobs are the in thing these days, but a lot of the Silicon Valley tech firms are in office parks similar to the ones here. That's one of the reasons why San Jose has a tiny skyline for a city its size.
The fact of the matter is the city of Phoenix just doesn't offer the variety that other's cities of similar size and the suburbs have.
Phoenix is way underneath it's weight for a city of 1.6 million people. Luckily, Scottsdale, Tempe, Gilbert and Tempe are above their weight on amenities.
downtown Phoenix has drug dealers, panhandlers sniffling asking who ever is on the block for money for their heroin habit, morning alcoholics in a snobby package.
Being the introverted metro area it is Scottsdale, Tempe and Gilbert and other suburbs just offer a nice core without the riff-raff.
Seems silly to pay top dollar to live in a condo and than they have to go to 20th and Highland to shop or Tempe, Scottsdale or Gilbert for nightlife.
I much prefer Tempe, Scottsdale, Gilbert with orderly, friendly, clean and interesting downtown's.
For a city of 1.6 million, the downtown is fairly clean and small but the most of the adjacent
areas except for North Central corridor tend to feel more like a third-world country.
Phoenix has lots, lots and lots of poor families for a city of it's size. San Diego, San Francisco, Seattle, Denver and Salt Lake City have no where near the amount of poor families per-capita as Phoenix.
Cities with great, big populations of poor families like Phoenix, Indianapolis, Milwaukee tend to fail compared to cities with big population of rich dual-income no kids families like in San Diego, Denver and Salt Lake City.
There is a reason why when tourists come they usually stay in Tempe, Gilbert or Scottsdale.
Based on many of your posts, you appear to have an obsession with your theory about "lots" of poor families in Phoenix. One would think you had interacted with so many of them in order to make such a bold statement. For as much time as you post about the topic and being that it's so important to you, I sincerely hope that you are contributing an equal amount of time trying to find solutions to help these poor families who try to help themselves and that it's not beneath you.
Based on many of your posts, you appear to have an obsession with your theory about "lots" of poor families in Phoenix. One would think you had interacted with so many of them in order to make such a bold statement. For as much time as you post about the topic and being that it's so important to you, I sincerely hope that you are contributing an equal amount of time trying to find solutions to help these poor families who try to help themselves and that it's not beneath you.
Yep, Phoenix downtown is surrounded on three sides with poor neighborhoods full of poor families. To the south, east and west. North of downtown Phoenix along Central and a few blocks in each direction is the other area of nice areas.
It is comical people think most people landing in Phoenix are clamoring to rush into empty, unvibrant downtown Phoenix. They are headed to Tempe, Chandler or the resorts in Scottsdale.
I don't know if it's the many who come to Phoenix from small towns in the midwest or rural parts of Arizona but some of these condo's are with-in walking distance of a dollar-store and gas station.
No thanks, can rent an older apartment in Tempe, Scottsdale or a new apartment in Gilbert and be walking distance from a tremendous assortment of retailers without the negative people of the inner city.
Most of other cities have big, huge grocery stores in their downtown areas or immediately adjacent. Phoenix nearest good shopping selection with big stores is at 20th and Highland which is several miles from downtown.
I was just in downtown Phoenix to see if anything has changed. They have new condos and townhomes which is nice but the retail selection is sparse and it is just and impersonal.
Immediately went to Scottsdale with dozens of restaurants with elegant patio's full of people socializing.
To have a prosperous core city got to have lots of wealthy people and well-payed dual-income and no kids households like Denver, Salt Lake City, San Diego, San Francisco and Seattle.
Last edited by lovecrowds; 11-19-2017 at 04:57 PM..
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,596,838 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovecrowds
Yep, Phoenix downtown is surrounded on three sides with poor neighborhoods full of poor families. To the south, east and west. North of downtown Phoenix along Central and a few blocks in each direction is the other area of nice areas.
It is comical people think most people landing in Phoenix are clamoring to rush into empty, unvibrant downtown Phoenix. They are headed to Tempe, Chandler or the resorts in Scottsdale.
I don't know if it's the many who come to Phoenix from small towns in the midwest or rural parts of Arizona but some of these condo's are with-in walking distance of a dollar-store and gas station.
No thanks, can rent an older apartment in Tempe, Scottsdale or a new apartment in Gilbert and be walking distance from a tremendous assortment of retailers without the negative people of the inner city.
Most of other cities have big, huge grocery stores in their downtown areas or immediately adjacent. Phoenix nearest good shopping selection with big stores is at 20th and Highland which is several miles from downtown.
I was just in downtown Phoenix to see if anything has changed. They have new condos and townhomes which is nice but the retail selection is sparse and it is just and impersonal.
Immediately went to Scottsdale with dozens of restaurants with elegant patio's full of people socializing.
To have a prosperous core city got to have lots of wealthy people and well-payed dual-income and no kids households like Denver, Salt Lake City, San Diego, San Francisco and Seattle.
Phoenix does have a large low income population near the central area. I'm not agreeing with the above poster who seems to have a hard on for Scottsdale, but the poverty near the downtown area is an issue. LA has the same problem, but its LA. The real downtown area in LA has a wealthy base that attracts more wealth. Phoenix is never going to be that type of place.
The decay of the neighborhoods in Phoenix are just a reflection of the build up of linear slums that Phoenix has. I mean what do you expect when you build up a bunch of disposable tract housing. People get older, newer population doesn't want to buy older homes when there is so much abundant housing development or people just move out of their older neighborhoods to a newer suburban area. Then you have people blaming the illegals or whatever for the neighborhoods turning into hoods when they were the ones who were so eager to build the garbage cheap homes and then give up on them, which allowed the so called "illegals" to buy them in the first place. They just moved in because the development and social habits were conducive to it, but no one wants to blame that. I've seen this everywhere from Phoenix to Mesa to Chandler (in diminishing effect). Maybe give Gilbert some time and it will happen there too.
Overall, I don't think poverty is that big of an issue in a big city downtown area. Go to any big city and you'll see vast amounts of poverty in the housing near those areas and homelessness on the streets. It's the allure of a big city life that convinces people to overlook that to live and work in those parts. Can Phoenix build that allure on a large scale? I'm not sure. I see the young locals starting to gravitate towards living in downtown, but I don't know if the increase in an educated and young population in downtown can happen at the scale that will transform it into a real city. It doesn't help that corporations aren't really interested in moving to Arizona other than for cheap real estate and development, which is easier to do in the outer suburbs like Tempe and Chandler. What incentive does a corporation have to create a base or move its operations to downtown Phoenix? Phoenix is at a disadvantage even compared to some smaller large cities like Atlanta and Portland. I'm skeptical, but hopeful.
Yep, Phoenix downtown is surrounded on three sides with poor neighborhoods full of poor families. To the south, east and west. North of downtown Phoenix along Central and a few blocks in each direction is the other area of nice areas.
It is comical people think most people landing in Phoenix are clamoring to rush into empty, unvibrant downtown Phoenix. They are headed to Tempe, Chandler or the resorts in Scottsdale.
I don't know if it's the many who come to Phoenix from small towns in the midwest or rural parts of Arizona but some of these condo's are with-in walking distance of a dollar-store and gas station.
No thanks, can rent an older apartment in Tempe, Scottsdale or a new apartment in Gilbert and be walking distance from a tremendous assortment of retailers without the negative people of the inner city.
Most of other cities have big, huge grocery stores in their downtown areas or immediately adjacent. Phoenix nearest good shopping selection with big stores is at 20th and Highland which is several miles from downtown.
I was just in downtown Phoenix to see if anything has changed. They have new condos and townhomes which is nice but the retail selection is sparse and it is just and impersonal.
Immediately went to Scottsdale with dozens of restaurants with elegant patio's full of people socializing.
To have a prosperous core city got to have lots of wealthy people and well-payed dual-income and no kids households like Denver, Salt Lake City, San Diego, San Francisco and Seattle.
You’re complaining about poor people near Phoenix and your counter examples are SF, SD and Seattle? I’ve literally stepped over needles on the streets in 2 of these cities and in SF particularly had to avoid stepping on human poop on the ground, it’s got so bad there someone created an app to track it.
You seem to live on quite the high horse and Scottsdale probably fits you better, it’s a little too fake for me. We live in a country where poor people exist, I don’t have a problem with it and in Phoenix in particular have had very little safety concerns. I’ve been hassled much worse in the cities you rattled off as more prosperous.
And by the way the nearest grocery store to downtown is 7th and McDowell. One is under construction downtown right now on Jefferson and 3rd, you don’t seem to know much about the downtown area.
You’re complaining about poor people near Phoenix and your counter examples are SF, SD and Seattle? I’ve literally stepped over needles on the streets in 2 of these cities and in SF particularly had to avoid stepping on human poop on the ground, it’s got so bad there someone created an app to track it.
You seem to live on quite the high horse and Scottsdale probably fits you better, it’s a little too fake for me. We live in a country where poor people exist, I don’t have a problem with it and in Phoenix in particular have had very little safety concerns. I’ve been hassled much worse in the cities you rattled off as more prosperous.
And by the way the nearest grocery store to downtown is 7th and McDowell. One is under construction downtown right now on Jefferson and 3rd, you don’t seem to know much about the downtown area.
San Diego had a hepatitis outbreak amongst its large homeless population resulting in 20 deaths yet were supposed to believe Phoenix has the real problem?
You’re complaining about poor people near Phoenix and your counter examples are SF, SD and Seattle? I’ve literally stepped over needles on the streets in 2 of these cities and in SF particularly had to avoid stepping on human poop on the ground, it’s got so bad there someone created an app to track it.
Ive done the same in PHX. And in all fairness, Ive also stepped over some in Scottsdale, too.
Yep, Phoenix downtown is surrounded on three sides with poor neighborhoods full of poor families. To the south, east and west. North of downtown Phoenix along Central and a few blocks in each direction is the other area of nice areas.
It is comical people think most people landing in Phoenix are clamoring to rush into empty, unvibrant downtown Phoenix. They are headed to Tempe, Chandler or the resorts in Scottsdale.
I don't know if it's the many who come to Phoenix from small towns in the midwest or rural parts of Arizona but some of these condo's are with-in walking distance of a dollar-store and gas station.
No thanks, can rent an older apartment in Tempe, Scottsdale or a new apartment in Gilbert and be walking distance from a tremendous assortment of retailers without the negative people of the inner city.
Most of other cities have big, huge grocery stores in their downtown areas or immediately adjacent. Phoenix nearest good shopping selection with big stores is at 20th and Highland which is several miles from downtown.
I was just in downtown Phoenix to see if anything has changed. They have new condos and townhomes which is nice but the retail selection is sparse and it is just and impersonal.
Immediately went to Scottsdale with dozens of restaurants with elegant patio's full of people socializing.
To have a prosperous core city got to have lots of wealthy people and well-payed dual-income and no kids households like Denver, Salt Lake City, San Diego, San Francisco and Seattle.
wtf is this poster smoking? lol agree with above...nothing but comedy here
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