What are some ways Phoenix could develop to stand out from the crowd? (Scottsdale: landscaping, neighborhood)
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Re: the suggestion that Phoenix go all solar? Correct me if I'm wrong, but solar energy can't compete on a pure cost basis to other forms of elect. generation. The gov't subsidizes solar power to make it more attractive. I'm sure with technological improvements over time, this may change though.
Re: reducing our carbon foot print. Don't forget our massive Palo Verde Nuclear electrical plant in the west valley. Produces no carbon emissions yet for some odd reason environmentalists seem to forget this benefit.
I have mixed opinions about solar energy. Part of me says we should utilize the sun's energy for something more beneficial than tanning, or merely having the sunshine for bragging purposes. There are some efficiency problems with solar energy, and the panels/components can be very expensive. Plus, the panels that practically cover an entire roof look hideous (in my opinion). As you correctly stated, we have Palo Verde which not only generates a very efficient form of electrical power, it's also the largest nuclear energy plant in the U.S. My suggestion is ignore the environmentalists. They're against so many things that have made our lives more convenient.
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Originally Posted by DougStark
Another suggestion I'd make for creating a more livable, beautiful Phoenix is to invest more effort and resources in urban forestry. Since this is my field of study, it naturally comes to mind. As it stands now, urban forestry is grossly underfunded in a city this large. Even the MAYOR of Phoenix said he wants Phoenix to have tree lined neighborhoods!
IMO, Too many Phoenix streets, boulevards and neighborhoods look hot and barren due to the fact that no one planned for street trees. This responsibility should have been done by the city and developer years ago (and in my opinion, the ongoing irrigation for the trees should be paid for by the city/municipality using inexpensive untreated canal water- trimming and removal costs as well.) The argument that we don't have the water, or it's a waste of water, rings hollow with me. For example, massive amounts of water are used by farmers on the edges of the valley yet no one complains about that.
Some purists will argue that because this is the desert, tree lined shade trees don't belong here. I disagree and feel the benefits of shade FAR outweigh the costs as long as trained staff are maintaining the trees. For example, what percentage of kids would rather play in a tree shaded yard vs. a yard with no shade and with blazing sun and heat? Other benefits: reduction in the urban heat island, beauty, uptake in C02, increased property values, more people walking along neighborhood sidewalks, etc.
Can't argue with anything you stated. Makes too much sense!
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Originally Posted by cjseliga
Sacramento also gets, on average, an additional 10 inches of rain each year as compared to Phoenix. Imagine the amount and types of trees Phoenix could have if it got 18 inches of rain a year instead of just 8 inches, in a good year, but then it wouldn't be considered a desert.
First of all, you seem to be forgetting that while Sacramento might receive more rain per year than Phoenix does, they usually have a long extended dry season that lasts from roughly April or May all the way through October. It's very common for much of California to receive little or no rain at all during this period. Sacramento's 18 inches of rain falls primarily during one time of year (November to April) ... plus, did you also know that Sacramento's high temperatures in the summer months can sometimes approach 110 degrees? Their summers can be very hot & dry.
Phoenix might receive less annual rainfall than northern CA, but we have a shorter dry season. Also, there have been statistics released that show water consumption in Phoenix has actually DECREASED in the last 30 years. The main reason for this is the reduction of agriculture. There was a time when citrus groves, cotton, and alfalfa were common sites around the Valley, and they required a tremendous amount of water. Now that most of those are gone & replaced by urbanization, we have a massive urban heat island as a result. It would be beneficial if we could have more tree lined streets & greenery ... which incidentally consume far less water than agriculture does!
Another suggestion I'd make for creating a more livable, beautiful Phoenix is to invest more effort and resources in urban forestry. Since this is my field of study, it naturally comes to mind. As it stands now, urban forestry is grossly underfunded in a city this large. Even the MAYOR of Phoenix said he wants Phoenix to have tree lined neighborhoods!
IMO, Too many Phoenix streets, boulevards and neighborhoods look hot and barren due to the fact that no one planned for street trees. This responsibility should have been done by the city and developer years ago (and in my opinion, the ongoing irrigation for the trees should be paid for by the city/municipality using inexpensive untreated canal water- trimming and removal costs as well.) The argument that we don't have the water, or it's a waste of water, rings hollow with me. For example, massive amounts of water are used by farmers on the edges of the valley yet no one complains about that.
Some purists will argue that because this is the desert, tree lined shade trees don't belong here. I disagree and feel the benefits of shade FAR outweigh the costs as long as trained staff are maintaining the trees. For example, what percentage of kids would rather play in a tree shaded yard vs. a yard with no shade and with blazing sun and heat? Other benefits: reduction in the urban heat island, beauty, uptake in C02, increased property values, more people walking along neighborhood sidewalks, etc.
Sacramento is one of my favorite examples of a city that has done urban forestry right. If anyone else has seen that town's beautiful mature tree lined streets, you'll know what I'm talking about. I was told by one of the locals that the trees were purposely planted years ago by city planners to keep the city cool before air conditioning came along.
I'd like to see less gravel and more drought tolerant grass planted in the desert. All the rock and gravel absorbs heat and creates convection. Phoenix and most major cities in AZ could use more shade, especially trees.
I think Phoenix has a master plan for 25% more trees by 2020 or something like that.
I remember seeing someone on the news touting the efforts to go more green and they were standing on a lawn under a bunch of Sissoo trees. AAAAAAHHHHHH!!!
I'd like to see less gravel and more drought tolerant grass planted in the desert. All the rock and gravel absorbs heat and creates convection. Phoenix and most major cities in AZ could use more shade, especially trees.
Exactly! Some people may not realize that rock/gravel yards contribute to the heat island effect just as much as concrete and asphalt. Besides, they look absolutely hideous when weeds are growing in the rocks and aren't kept up like they should. There are those who think having a rock/gravel yard means no maintenance ... however, they need upkeep just as much as grass lawns. Letting rocks be strewn out on the sidewalks & streets, and letting weeds take over is quite common. It equates to laziness & ignorance.
I'd like to see less gravel and more drought tolerant grass planted in the desert. All the rock and gravel absorbs heat and creates convection. Phoenix and most major cities in AZ could use more shade, especially trees.
Well-written.
Shadetrees, grass, misters, waterparks, and swimming pools are heat relievers.
Even on the hottest summer days it can be much more pleasant to be outside in a green shady area than on gravel, sidewalks, or unshaded areas in the direct sunlight.
Water availability is not a concern, there are no threats of water restrictions because water management is pretty good here and recycling efforts have paid off.
Shadetrees, grass, misters, waterparks, and swimming pools are heat relievers.
Even on the hottest summer days it can be much more pleasant to be outside in a green shady area than on gravel, sidewalks, or unshaded areas in the direct sunlight.
Water availability is not a concern, there are no threats of water restrictions because water management is pretty good here and recycling efforts have paid off.
Absolutely right! What some people (especially the more recent transplants) seem to forget is the Phoenix area has always been a green oasis in the middle of the desert. Prior to about 25 years ago, there were very few yards that were all gravel or xeriscaped. Practically everybody who owned a house had grass lawns in both the front & back, and I don't recall anybody making a big fuss about it. To prove my point, just go to the older sections of Phoenix (the historic districts in particular), and you'll see practically all the houses with grass & trees. It has a nice cooling effect, unlike gravel which is unsightly and adds heat.
Absolutely right! What some people (especially the more recent transplants) seem to forget is the Phoenix area has always been a green oasis in the middle of the desert. Prior to about 25 years ago, there were very few yards that were all gravel or xeriscaped. Practically everybody who owned a house had grass lawns in both the front & back, and I don't recall anybody making a big fuss about it. To prove my point, just go to the older sections of Phoenix (the historic districts in particular), and you'll see practically all the houses with grass & trees. It has a nice cooling effect, unlike gravel which is unsightly and adds heat.
The issue here is that the Valley's population has exploded, and will continue to do so. Having green grass everywhere seems like a dream, but its not sustainable. We are already taxing the Colorado River to death, why speed up its demise? Just because people want to plant non-native plants and trees here? How selfish is that?! This is the Sonoran Desert. Key word: desert. Its not meant for super lush lawns, no matter how many people had them "way back when". And those of us who have lived in lush areas know just how much of a pain grass is to maintain. Not to mention the allergens it creates, the bugs it attracts, the water it consumes, and the humidity it raises. Move to Florida if you want that kinda crap.
The issue here is that the Valley's population has exploded, and will continue to do so. Having green grass everywhere seems like a dream, but its not sustainable. We are already taxing the Colorado River to death, why speed up its demise? Just because people want to plant non-native plants and trees here? How selfish is that?! This is the Sonoran Desert. Key word: desert. Its not meant for super lush lawns, no matter how many people had them "way back when". And those of us who have lived in lush areas know just how much of a pain grass is to maintain. Not to mention the allergens it creates, the bugs it attracts, the water it consumes, and the humidity it raises. Move to Florida if you want that kinda crap.
It should be pointed out the Phoenix uses less water today than it did in the 60s and 70s and has cut its groundwater usage almost in half in that time frame. That's despite the population growth.
If density were more encouraged, grass and trees would be more sustainable because the water per person would be reduced. Nevertheless, grass and population are not the actual problems taxing the Colorado river. Additionally, Phoenix has three other rivers.
It should be pointed out the Phoenix uses less water today than it did in the 60s and 70s and has cut its groundwater usage almost in half in that time frame. That's despite the population growth.
If density were more encouraged, grass and trees would be more sustainable because the water per person would be reduced. Nevertheless, grass and population are not the actual problems taxing the Colorado river. Additionally, Phoenix has three other rivers.
You're correct, and I'm aware of the fact that we use less water now, but if everyone was encouraged to plant grass and shade trees, its just wasted water in my eyes. Theres no need for it at all, unless people like more allergens, bugs, and humidity. I think those 3 things are exactly what people DONT want here.
Exactly! Some people may not realize that rock/gravel yards contribute to the heat island effect just as much as concrete and asphalt. Besides, they look absolutely hideous when weeds are growing in the rocks and aren't kept up like they should. There are those who think having a rock/gravel yard means no maintenance ... however, they need upkeep just as much as grass lawns. Letting rocks be strewn out on the sidewalks & streets, and letting weeds take over is quite common. It equates to laziness & ignorance.
Agreed, that is a big reason I like living in Chandler because we have trees and grass and it is noticeably cooler than when I lived in Scottsdale. When you live near open desert, it feels much more hot.
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