Arizona Republic article "Phoenix is the nation's 5th largest — but is it a 'real' city?" (city hall, neighborhood)

[phoenixmike11]

Phoenix is the nation's 5th largest

Arizona Republic asks if Phoenix is a "real city" in the traditional sense

Our View: Phoenix is fifth-largest. That doesn't mean it's grown up

Another article about whether Phoenix should focus more on quality growth rather than pure population growth.

Rogue Columnist: The ideology of the cancer cell

Downtown continues to grow

The Whining Pig Opens New Neighborhood Bar in Downtown Phoenix's Collier Center - Downtown Phoenix Inc.
this is a great (and free site to check the latest happening in downtown)

https://www.inc.com/john-boitnott/bw...silicon/b.html

The Grand: Downtown Phoenix's latest 24/7 coffee shop, bar | AZ Big Media

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...pening-in.html

Weekend Getaway — Phoenix — New York Magazine

Maybe we can make this a downtown Phoenix thread which tracks all the new things going on downtown as downtown Phoenix ascends

[exit2lef]

I've long admired Brenna Goth's city hall reporting, but this front page story was a disappointment. It's mainly a recitation of cliches without much depth in terms of data or analysis. Of course, the entire premise of the article, that Phoenix is a giant suburb rather than a "real city," is itself a cliche, so maybe she did the best she could with an unfortunate topic assigned to her. The biggest failure of the article is that half of it is wasted on quotes from ex-Phoenician Jon Talton, who left town a decade ago and still can't let go of his bitterness. Most, if not all, of that all space should have been devoted to more interviews with people who actually live here, as well as hard data on demographics, density, and development.

[phx1205]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

I've long admired Brenna Goth's city hall reporting, but this front page story was a disappointment. It's mainly a recitation of cliches without much depth in terms of data or analysis. Of course, the entire premise of the article, that Phoenix is a giant suburb rather than a "real city" is itself a cliche, so maybe she did the best she could with an unfortunate topic assigned to her. The biggest failure of the article is that half of it is wasted on quotes from ex-Phoenician Jon Talton, who left town a decade ago and still can't let go of his bitterness. Most, if not all, of that all space should have been devoted to more interviews with people who actually live here, as well as hard data on demographics, density, and development.

As soon as I saw Talton's name, I knew it was going to be a waste of my time to continue reading that article, and it was. And the Republic wonders why no one wants to subscribe to their news. I mean seriously, the entire article is basically about what is wrong with Phoenix according to some guy that disliked the city so much he left and yet still continues to write about his hatred for the city. And the fact that this writer seeks him out for his opinions is basically all you need to know about the quality of the article.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by phx1205

As soon as I saw Talton's name, I knew it was going to be a waste of my time to continue reading that article, and it was. And the Republic wonders why no one wants to subscribe to their news. I mean seriously, the entire article is basically about what is wrong with Phoenix according to some guy that disliked the city so much he left and yet still continues to write about his hatred for the city. And the fact that this writer seeks him out for his opinions is basically all you need to know about the quality of the article.

The funny thing is that he criticizes the Republic / Gannett all the time, yet the reporters who work for that organization can't seem to get enough of his diatribes. Of course, if they're at all unhappy with their jobs, maybe they're secretly cheering his bashing of his former and their current employer, as tacky and unprofessional as that behavior is.

[new2colo]

Talton's gripes are extremely repetitive. He seems to be unable to get past that Phoenix of his childhood is gone. Can you imagine if all of us started blogs whining about how the towns and cities of our childhoods have changed? I do agree that Phoenix is far from perfect. There are quite a few people here who are delusional about Phoenix's current condition.

[goillini8]

The Atlanta forum is also slightly obsessed with their city/metro's population rank, which at this point I think is sort of stupid. Both are going to be Top 10 population metros for a VERY long time (if not forever) (more accurately Top 5-7, or someday possibly 4-7). Phoenix's city-proper population status is also going to be highly ranked for a long time. I get there's some general status to be gained under the "bigger is better" theory. But, I've been in plenty of big, not-so-great cities/metros, so why not concentrate on being better at this point with population status secured for the foreseeable future. But, I guess a lot of "better," like new development which spurs job growth, often comes with "bigger."

[azriverfan.]

Phoenix residents in general have an inferiority complex regarding their city. It applies to multiple facets such as the weather, sports teams, the nature of the city etc.

Do you think Philly would ever allow an article like that to be published? For godsake, show some dignity; how do you even entertain publishing such an article. It pretty much gives credence and acknowledges the idea that we aren't a real city.

This forum used to be filled with trolls who lived here and bashed Phoenix. We even had a moderator (no longer here thank goodness) who also was very highly critical of Phoenix. It has gotten better every year and more residents are demonstrating pride and appreciation for their city.

What is even more annoying is how these critics continue to live here. I understand and accept if you don't like Phoenix but then why do you CHOOSE TO LIVE HERE and why do you not leave. It's beyond petty foolishness. They love to criticize Phoenix but are too afraid to admit they like elements of the city out of ego.

[Burning Madolf]

That title is pure click bait.

[new2colo]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

Phoenix residents in general have an inferiority complex regarding their city. It applies to multiple facets such as the weather, sports teams, the nature of the city etc.

Do you think Philly would ever allow an article like that to be published? For godsake, show some dignity; how do you even entertain publishing such an article. It pretty much gives credence and acknowledges the idea that we aren't a real city.

This forum used to be filled with trolls who lived here and bashed Phoenix. We even had a moderator (no longer here thank goodness) who also was very highly critical of Phoenix. It has gotten better every year and more residents are demonstrating pride and appreciation for their city.

What is even more annoying is how these critics continue to live here. I understand and accept if you don't like Phoenix but then why do you CHOOSE TO LIVE HERE and why do you not leave. It's beyond petty foolishness. They love to criticize Phoenix but are too afraid to admit they like elements of the city out of ego.

There's no inferiority complex on this end. People in Phoenix have to constantly defend the city from people who aren't familiar with the city because of their ignorance. I think people in Phoenix are well aware of what this city offers and doesn't offer in terms of big city amenities. There are a lot of people who think Phoenix is nothing more than a hot, desolate, racist place filled with people who consider Applebees fine dining. It always amuses me when I encounter someone who is visiting Phoenix the first time. They are surprised by the size of the city and the offerings. They are surprised to see more than taco shops and Olive Gardens.

It's the people in Philly with the inferiority complex. Most people in Philly probably had no idea Phoenix was as large as it is until reading that article. Despite all the problems east coast cities have, people are fiercely loyal to the cities they live in. So when a city like Phoenix surges past Philly in population, people there will definitely start the comparisons.

Concerning your last point, people can choose to be negative about where they live if they want to. You have no idea what brought them here in the first place. Not everybody happily moved here. Some of those people don't have the means to leave. It's interesting that you call people out for having an inferiority complex, but you seem hyper annoyed at anyone who has a critical point about this city.

[Finger Laker]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

Phoenix residents in general have an inferiority complex regarding their city. It applies to multiple facets such as the weather, sports teams, the nature of the city etc.

Do you think Philly would ever allow an article like that to be published? For godsake, show some dignity; how do you even entertain publishing such an article. It pretty much gives credence and acknowledges the idea that we aren't a real city.

This forum used to be filled with trolls who lived here and bashed Phoenix. We even had a moderator (no longer here thank goodness) who also was very highly critical of Phoenix. It has gotten better every year and more residents are demonstrating pride and appreciation for their city.

What is even more annoying is how these critics continue to live here. I understand and accept if you don't like Phoenix but then why do you CHOOSE TO LIVE HERE and why do you not leave. It's beyond petty foolishness. They love to criticize Phoenix but are too afraid to admit they like elements of the city out of ego.

Philadelphia also has a massive inferiority complex and article in that vein are published all the time - typically using NYC to illustrate what Philly is not.

The term negadelphian didn't come out of nowhere.

As for this article, typical Talton trash - nothing more.

I also reject the premise that you need to be urban and dense to be a "real" city. They concept is value projection, ignorance and insecurity.

I've lived in many cities of many different sizes. Phoenix is very much a large and real city. It is just newer in development with different local values.

Phoenix is not the fifth largest city IMO. I think stating as such gives a false expectation of what should be here, especially under the context of newer growth. We don't have the large city institutions that have been around for 100+ years because Phoenix was dusty nothing in that time frame, relativity speaking.

Phoenix incorporates all the valley communities. We have a shared experience by and large regardless of the individual city.

When you look at Phoenix in its sum, it is smaller than other metro areas. It is still very large though..... Just not top 5 large.

This same conversation came up over a decade ago the last time Phoenix was the 5th largest city by projections. So much has changed for the better since then and there have been substantial challenges along the way.

The focus needs to be on understanding who is moving here, looking into cooperation between individual cities to benefit the metro at large, improving opportunities, improving infrastructure and improving education.

We have trouble with providing high quality workers in both office and skilled trade work.

Phoenix may be the largest metro without a high quality undergraduate program in place. One that is universally good.... Not just good in pieces for some. The schooling for kids also lags tremendously.

There are challenges and opportunities ahead, regardless of population rank and what others think of our real city. We need to continue to push forward and these types of articles and population fixation are not productive to any extent