Arizona Republic article "Phoenix is the nation's 5th largest — but is it a 'real' city?" (Tucson: real estate, rent)

[cjseliga]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

San Jose doesn't have a very tall downtown skyline, but a lot of that is because it's overshadowed by San Francisco just to the north.

And also all the huge tech companies/campuses in Cupertino, Mountain View, Santa Clara, Menlo Park, Sunnyvale etc. don't necessarily help San Jose's skyline either! I guess it helps it in a negative way from being taller.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

He doesn't make good points. Essentially the point that all of you make is based on aesthetics. You would have a point if it was just a large spread out community that had nothing to offer. But that's not the case. We are a large spread out city with the same amenities that other large cities have: professional sports, night life, great dining, a nice airport etc. There are a lot of spread out cities that don't offer the same amenities as Phoenix. So that argument is rather weak.

Talton does make sound, legitimate points, and he always has despite his overall negativity. When he was a regular columnist for the Republic, he wrote a lot about Phoenix's growth, and what can & should be done to compliment the growth. He rightfully said that Phoenix can no longer be a place that's sunny & cheap to live ... it must start growing up & acting its size, and he was absolutely right.

You're correct that Phoenix has plenty to offer despite all the sprawl, but seriously we SHOULD have a lot of big city amenities for as large as we are now. And even as much as the central core as improved, you have to admit that it's still lacking somewhat in density, height, vibrancy, and corporate HQs ... especially compared to other cities around our size.

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

What this really comes down to is envy. No one likes the super successful person that emerges out of nowhere. There is a lot of jealousy and there is a natural proclivity to put down Phoenix because it essentially rose out of the ashes and grew so incredibly fast in literally 20 years to rival the largest cities in the country. That just doesn't happen. People don't like that so they look for ways to put it down.

This is true, and I've noticed a lot of that envy from the Philadelphia side. Philly is one example of a place that has a large, dense, tall, active downtown core (more than Phoenix), but a good part of the city outside of downtown is old & dilapidated with lots of slummy type of neighborhoods. Phoenix is more or less the opposite ... and based on what I've seen of Philly, I wouldn't live there for anything!

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

It is just pathetic when our own residents lack any sense of civic pride and continue to act like tourists despite living here for over 10 years. Look no further than this forum for a shining example of that. That being said, actions speak louder than words. If this city was so horrible then why do the critics continue to live here and not leave. If they truly felt this city was awful, they would have left a long time ago. Talk is cheap. The next time you hear someone criticize Phoenix, ask how long they have lived here. Yeah, why are you still here.

Absolutely! The lack of civic pride is noticeable in the local pro sports teams ... many of the transplants are still loyal to the teams they left behind, so much so that there are even special bars & clubs here which are dedicated to fans of certain football teams from back east (Steelers, Packers, Patriots, etc., etc.). I always thought the lack of support for the Suns, DBacks, Coyotes, and even the Cards is pathetic. This is a good example of many transplants who can't seem to leave behind the cities/towns they moved here from.

Also, you can look no further than this forum for some of the most frequently discussed topics. What are a lot of the threads consisting of? Weather/heat, snowbirds, retirement, bugs, snakes, or scorpions. These aren't exactly the kinds of discussions that the nation's 5th largest city should be so heavily involved with. What about the more essential things that make up a large city, such as jobs, money, culture, world class entertainment ... things that would make Phoenix be more of a globally competitive market?

[Finger Laker]

Trying to derive civic pride or how people are involved in bettering their community based on how they consume entertainment is foolhardy at best

[Java Jolt]

Originally Posted by 43north87west

Not this again.

If being a "real" city means being a ghetto full of abrasive people like New York or Chicago, you can have your "real" city.

Or lots of run-down neighborhoods like in Detroit where the population was nearly two million residents in 1950 and declined to under 700,000 residents today.

At least Phoenix is still growing and has many nicer, newer neighborhoods compared to cities in the eastern United States.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Talton does make sound, legitimate points, and he always has despite his overall negativity. When he was a regular columnist for the Republic, he wrote a lot about Phoenix's growth, and what can & should be done to compliment the growth. He rightfully said that Phoenix can no longer be a place that's sunny & cheap to live ... it must start growing up & acting its size, and he was absolutely right.

You're correct that Phoenix has plenty to offer despite all the sprawl, but seriously we SHOULD have a lot of big city amenities for as large as we are now. And even as much as the central core as improved, you have to admit that it's still lacking somewhat in density, height, vibrancy, and corporate HQs ... especially compared to other cities around our size.



This is true, and I've noticed a lot of that envy from the Philadelphia side. Philly is one example of a place that has a large, dense, tall, active downtown core (more than Phoenix), but a good part of the city outside of downtown is old & dilapidated with lots of slummy type of neighborhoods. Phoenix is more or less the opposite ... and based on what I've seen of Philly, I wouldn't live there for anything!

Philadelphians have looked at this thread. Me, for instance. We don't envy you.

42 million tourists visited Philly last year. More come every year. What's tourism like there?

[phx1205]

Originally Posted by kyb01

Philadelphians have looked at this thread. Me, for instance. We don't envy you.

42 million tourists visited Philly last year. More come every year. What's tourism like there?

42.1 million, actually, in 2015. Probably more in 2016.

https://tourism.az.gov/sites/default...2009-07-16.pdf

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by kyb01

Philadelphians have looked at this thread. Me, for instance. We don't envy you.

42 million tourists visited Philly last year. More come every year. What's tourism like there?

So here's something that jumped out at me:

Philly gets 42million visitors and brings in around 10 billion in direct spending from them.
http://files.visitphilly.com/Visit-P...ve-Summary.pdf (pg. 5)

Phoenix gets 22 million visitors and brings in around 13.6 billion in direct spending from them.
https://tourism.az.gov/sites/default...2009-07-16.pdf (pg. 5)


Just interesting that people spend twice as much when they come here. I wonder why that is.

[phx1205]

Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64

So here's something that jumped out at me:

Philly gets 42million visitors and brings in around 10 billion in direct spending from them.
http://files.visitphilly.com/Visit-P...ve-Summary.pdf (pg. 5)

Phoenix gets 22 million visitors and brings in around 13.6 billion in direct spending from them.
https://tourism.az.gov/sites/default...2009-07-16.pdf (pg. 5)


Just interesting that people spend twice as much when they come here.

Oops, I didn't realize when I quoted that study that 44.1M was statewide. Good point on the spending!

[cjseliga]

Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64

So here's something that jumped out at me:

Philly gets 42million visitors and brings in around 10 billion in direct spending from them.
http://files.visitphilly.com/Visit-P...ve-Summary.pdf (pg. 5)

Phoenix gets 22 million visitors and brings in around 13.6 billion in direct spending from them.
https://tourism.az.gov/sites/default...2009-07-16.pdf (pg. 5)


Just interesting that people spend twice as much when they come here. I wonder why that is.

Having grown up in NEPA (Northeastern PA) and the Mid-Atlantic/Northeast maybe it has to do with most people vising Philly are doing day trips from 2-3 hours away and not really staying overnight in hotels?

I know growing up we would go visit the Philly Zoo, Independence Hall, King of Prussia Mall, Phillies game, etc. and it was only a 2 hour drive away. The Northeast is so much more compact as compared to the Southwest. Don't see too many people from San Diego/LA/Inland Empire/SoCal doing a day trip to Phoenix, maybe people from Tucson/Flagstaff?

The month of spring training alone, with all the hotel/rental car bookings must bring some bank to Phoenix and it's burbs. I know Flag is sort of the gateway to the Grand Canyon, but I imagine most people that are going to fly into the state to do a Southwest tour, probably fly into PHX and stay a night there before they start and might stay another night in Phoenix before they fly out?

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64

So here's something that jumped out at me:

Philly gets 42million visitors and brings in around 10 billion in direct spending from them.
http://files.visitphilly.com/Visit-P...ve-Summary.pdf (pg. 5)

Phoenix gets 22 million visitors and brings in around 13.6 billion in direct spending from them.
https://tourism.az.gov/sites/default...2009-07-16.pdf (pg. 5)


Just interesting that people spend twice as much when they come here. I wonder why that is.

Just another Philly remark and I'll step back since I do not really belong here. Our tourism numbers were about what yours are 10-15 years ago. It will be interesting to see what the 2017 totals bring. We had two very high profile events in 2015( Pope Francis' visit) and the DNC last year. So some of what is happening now may be directly because of those. We get lots of New Yorkers because of the proximity and how everything is over priced in NYC.
But, yes, we do get visitors from all over the country.

The 42 million is just the domestic total. Nothing, yet, about foreign visitors. Direct flights to Iceland just started from Philly. Pretty much an outlier, imo. But okay!