"Lack of Culture/Things to DO" in Phoenix?? Huh?? (Tucson: house, scorpions)

[steve22]

Originally Posted by 43north87west

It's relative. If you travel to northern Minnesota or the U.P. of Michigan during the winter, bar-hopping via snowmobile is de rigueur. That qualifies as some of the local culture in the north. It also qualifies as one of those things that I have no desire to try.

And so it goes for Phoenix--it is, what it is. Not everyone has the same taste. I don't think broadening the cultural spectrum here would necessarily represent A Bad Thing. People used to an urbane East Coast culture will definitely see Phoenix as lacking opportunities. That's not to say that they don't exist, but you have to work much more to get to them. Out east, the "cultural" areas and events are mostly contained within neighborhoods or areas. If you want live entertainment or theater, you can find it in one area. Museums can be found fairly close to one another. Ethnic food can be found in clustered areas. You can spend a week in New York or Chicago, and just scratch the surface. Without getting in a car. Phoenix can't be compared, at least not with the same measuring stick. It is too suburban to qualify for the same definition of culture that defines the East.

Having said that, people are people, and you'll meet others with relative ease. Because a lot of people in Phoenix are from elsewhere, they're used to meeting new faces.

I don't really think it's necessarily a "lack" of entertainment, nightlife and/or cultural options that's the real problem in Phoenix; rather, the issue is that the options are so spread out all over the place, with few exceptions, that it necessitates driving all over Hell's half acre to enjoy many of them. It makes it seem like there's much less to see & do when the city is so decentralized, you basically can't walk to much of anything and there's no real vibrant, cosmopolitan, downtown to speak of. Certainly not one accurately reflective of the size of the metro population.

Like I've said before, Phoenix to me was basically like living in the world's largest suburb. Suburbs are fine if you're older & retired, or if you're married, have a family, don't mind driving constantly and want to spread out in the largest living space you can afford. On the other hand, if you're a young, single, outgoing, & educated adult, I have no idea why you'd want to voluntarily live in a suburb. Anywhere.

[miamiman]

Originally Posted by Sunvixen

Are there ethnic festivals representing Europeans?

I'm so used to German, Greek, Italian and Polish (mmmm...Nalesniki with strawberries!) festivals up here, I just take it for granted that all cities have them.

No little Bavaria, eh?


Oh, I answered my own question:
























GREEK FESTIVAL: Annual Greek Festival 2008—October 10th, 11th and 12th. One of Arizona’s oldest cultural festivals. Our Festival takes place on the grounds of Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox Cathedral.


GERMAN: City: Phoenix, AZ -- Put on your Lederhosen or Dirndls and join us for this great Bavarian Festival… a traditional German “Volksfest” in the heart of Phoenix…


ITALIAN...hey, they've got a the whole MONTH of April!
Italian Calendar - Phoenix, AZ




I see there is an Asian festival and an Irish community center. There is a chocolate festival in Glendale (never been to one of those, but you could twist my arm and I'd happily go!)


Hey, there's an ARIZONA IRISH FESTIVAL in Phoenix OCT 4TH, too. The Arizona Irish Festival - Where everyone is a wee bit Irish!


And, um...

I see today you have an Exotic (Erotic??) Art Show downtown.

And some people complain there is NOTHING TO DO???



Hmmm.

Maybe it's just my entrepreneurial spirit, but what some see as 'lacking" I see as opportunity to open new business or get involved in community. Silly me.

Great. We can add European festivals to the mix.

My point is the Phoenix area is lacking when compared to cities of comparable size. I never said that there is anything to do. That's a gross misinterpretation of my point. My point is that you really have to keep an eye out for stuff here in the Valley, or you'll miss it.

[silverbear]

Originally Posted by steve22

I don't really think it's necessarily a "lack" of entertainment, nightlife and/or cultural options that's the real problem in Phoenix; rather, the problem is that the options are so spread out all over the place, with few exceptions, that it necessitates driving all over Hell's half acre to enjoy many of them. It makes it seem like there's much less to see & do when the city is so decentralized, you basically can't walk to much of anything and there's no real vibrant, cosmopolitan, downtown to speak of. Certainly not one accurately reflective of the size of the metro population.

Like I've said before, Phoenix to me was basically like living in the world's largest suburb. Suburbs are fine if you're older & retired, or if you're married, have a family, don't mind driving constantly and want to spread out in the largest living space you can afford. On the other hand, if you're a young, single, outgoing, & educated adult, I have no idea why you'd want to voluntarily live in a suburb. Anywhere.

As I suggested earlier, I think the "spread out" and "one big suburb" arguments are cliches. I don't know of any metro area in which cultural amenities are not somewhat dispersed. Growing up in New York, there always were some events I wanted to see but had to miss because they were out in New Jersey or Long Island. At the same time, many of Phoenix's most prestigious cultural amenities are actually clustered within a relatively small space. The Herberger Theater, Symphony Hall, Orpheum Theater, Dodge Theater, Heard Museum, and Phoenix Art Museum are all within a two mile stretch along or near Central Avenue.

I'm all in favor of more walkable neighborhoods, a more vibrant Downtown, expanded public transit, and more density in Phoenix's core, but I don't accept the lack of those things as legitimate excuses for those who claim, incorrectly, that Phoenix lacks culture or has nothing to do. To be blunt, people who claim "no culture" or "nothing to do" are just revealing their own complacency and lack of imagination.

[Sunvixen]

Originally Posted by miamiman

Great. We can add European festivals to the mix.

My point is the Phoenix area is lacking when compared to cities of comparable size. I never said that there is anything to do. That's a gross misinterpretation of my point. My point is that you really have to keep an eye out for stuff here in the Valley, or you'll miss it.

Okay, okay...I hear you. I wasn't really talking about YOU, but anyway...Na zdrowie! Prost! Salute!

[vegaspilgrim]

The word "culture" can have many different meanings. Sure, Phoenix does have some representation of "high culture," as in Capital 'C' "Culture" (ballet, opera, theater, art museums, etc). The real culture of what Phoenix is all about has nothing to do with that. In my view, things that characterize Phoenix that make it different than other cities include an abundance of tattoo parlors, smoke shops, 24 hour "-bertos" burrito joints, "--ias" (carnicerias, etc), check cashing places, Circle K's, and outdoor drinking establishments (Phoenix is a HUGE drinking town, and when people here want to "do something" it usually means going to the bars). Sure, other cities have these things too, but I've never seen any other city that has such a huge concentration of these things. Phoenix is the kind of place where you have to make your own fun and invent your own culture; there's really no one place in the metro area with a creative atmosphere where you can go and simply absorb the unique atmosphere. The root of Phoenix's lack of culture (as I definite "culture") is its weak economy. I can't think of one single thing that Phoenix produces and gives back to the world outside of Phoenix. In that sense it's a very hedonistic city; it takes and consumes but doesn't give anything back in return.

[Sunvixen]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

The real culture of what Phoenix is all about has nothing to do with that. In my view, things that characterize Phoenix that make it different than other cities include an abundance of tattoo parlors, smoke shops, 24 hour "-bertos" burrito joints, "--ias" (carnicerias, etc), check cashing places, Circle K's, and outdoor drinking establishments ......... The root of Phoenix's lack of culture (as I definite "culture") is its weak economy. I can't think of one single thing that Phoenix produces and gives back to the world outside of Phoenix. In that sense it's a very hedonistic city; it takes and consumes but doesn't give anything back in return.

WHAT??????????????????

[abmiku]

I moved here from Buffalo, NY (when I was 12 with my parents), and am now 30. In Buffalo there used to be these huge local markets with all types of food and vegies from all kinds of European countries, and large cultural centers...there is nothing like that here. You'll have to define culture to us in order to get an answer that you'll be happy with. I'd rather live in Buffalo myself, I love cold weather...and am currently looking to move out of AZ...I have many friends here and everyone hates it except the people that grew up here(and have never lived anywhere else).

[silverbear]

Originally Posted by abmiku

I moved here from Buffalo, NY (when I was 12 with my parents), and am now 30. In Buffalo there used to be these huge local markets with all types of food and vegies from all kinds of European countries, and large cultural centers...there is nothing like that here. You'll have to define culture to us in order to get an answer that you'll be happy with. I'd rather live in Buffalo myself, I love cold weather...and am currently looking to move out of AZ...I have many friends here and everyone hates it except the people that grew up here(and have never lived anywhere else).

I'm afraid that's not true. Many of the most enthusiastic Phoenicians are transplants like me. By the way, are those markets still operating in Buffalo? Let's make sure we're comparing one place to another rather than one time to another. Chain supermarkets are the norm in most parts of the country now, even those that used to rely more on local markets like you describe.

[silverbear]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

The word "culture" can have many different meanings. Sure, Phoenix does have some representation of "high culture," as in Capital 'C' "Culture" (ballet, opera, theater, art museums, etc). The real culture of what Phoenix is all about has nothing to do with that. In my view, things that characterize Phoenix that make it different than other cities include an abundance of tattoo parlors, smoke shops, 24 hour "-bertos" burrito joints, "--ias" (carnicerias, etc), check cashing places, Circle K's, and outdoor drinking establishments (Phoenix is a HUGE drinking town, and when people here want to "do something" it usually means going to the bars). Sure, other cities have these things too, but I've never seen any other city that has such a huge concentration of these things. Phoenix is the kind of place where you have to make your own fun and invent your own culture; there's really no one place in the metro area with a creative atmosphere where you can go and simply absorb the unique atmosphere. The root of Phoenix's lack of culture (as I definite "culture") is its weak economy. I can't think of one single thing that Phoenix produces and gives back to the world outside of Phoenix. In that sense it's a very hedonistic city; it takes and consumes but doesn't give anything back in return.

VP, I'm afraid you've lost me on this one. You make a lot of points that don't appear to be related, but let me address a few individually:

tattoo parlors, tobacco stores, check cashing places, etc. -- I'd have to seem some hard stats to believe these are more common here than in most of the country. I've seen them most other places I go. In Eastern cities with more tightly regulated economies, the check cashing store may not be as prevalent; instead, you have something far more insidious: the loan shark. My point: in some cases, what you see in Sunbelt cities is just a more above-board version of what existed underground somewhere else.

Circle K's -- most older cities have abundant junky little bodegas and slum groceries that sell overprocessed food at inflated prices. Again, Circle K is just a more above-board version of something that exists elsewhere.

Hedonistic City -- I think that award would go to either Las Vegas or pre-Katrina New Orleans. Unless you can show me stats that show a large net inflow of federal assistance to Arizona above and beyond other states, I'm going to be skeptical of the "takes more than it gives" argument. I can think of many Phoenix-based companies that sell goods and services worldwide. Likewise, I can think of numerous companies based elsewhere but with significant operations here. Ultimately, Phoenix's image is not tied to one industry, but that's probably a good thing.

The one thing I like about your post is the wording about "making your own fun" or "inventing your own culture." That's the best practice anywhere. Any city that has a set cultural blueprint to follow would be a boring one.

[abmiku]

Originally Posted by silverbear

I'm afraid that's not true. Many of the most enthusiastic Phoenicians are transplants like me. By the way, are those markets still operating in Buffalo? Let's make sure we're comparing one place to another rather than one time to another. Chain supermarkets are the norm in most parts of the country now, even those that used to rely more on local markets like you describe.

That's why I used the term "used to have"...I don't know...What part is not true that I stated...that all my friends hate it here?