Southwest Valley vs. Southeast Valley (Phoenix, Mesa: cul-de-sac, HOA, crime)

[Prickly Pear]

For the sake of the thread let's make a list of what constitutes the Southwest and Southeast sections of town

Southwest Valley
Avondale
Litchfield
Buckeye
Tolleson
Goodyear
Laveen Village of Phoenix*
Maryvale Village of Phoenix*
Estrella Village of Phoenix*
Glendale (South of Northern)**

Southeast Valley
Chandler
Gilbert
Apache Junction
Queen Creek
San Tan Valley
Mesa (east of say, Gilbert Road?)**
Gold Canyon

* I'm including these Phoenix villages because the fit similar development patterns as the rest of the SW Valley. Maryvale I only included to have a continuous area, though some of it is new. And besides, if SE Valley gets Apache Junction, SW Valley can have Maryvale.

**I limited Glendale because parts of it does indeed count as the Northwest Valley. Mesa's West side I was hesitant on including, but I chose not too to try to make these relatively similar sizes. Mesa's West side is also a lot like Tempe, which I am excluding for numerous reasons.

I wanted to stick to the cookie cutter development for this thread. Please keep that in mind. I'm talking purely suburban cul-de-sac type development. You can mention urban areas nearby (like north Tempe) but they aren't included for a reason. For those who want a single family home with a white picket fence with strip malls, what really are the differences between these two sides of town?

Rank both sides with 10 being the best, and explain which side you prefer and why:
Shopping 1-10
Affordability 1-10
Parks 1-10
Schools 1-10
Community Events 1-10
Nature Access 1-10
Job Availability 1-10
Infrastructure 1-10
Traffic/Congestion 1-10
Crime 1-10
Local politics/taxes 1-10
HOAs (fees and regulation) 1-10
Utilities 1-10 (electric + water)
Nightlife 1-10
Restaurants 1-10
Neighbor Friendliness 1-10

I was in Avondale and Goodyear the other day for the first time and I was pleasantly surprised. It reminded me of North Peoria where I grew up, clean, quiet, and well... new. Commercial areas were well planned. Overall I was fond of the area. Downsides? I-10 commuting is why I would never consider it.

I don't go much into the SE Valley, but generally I'm not familiar with that part of town as a West Valley resident. For the most part I don't have much interest in that part of town, how I feel towards SW Valley also. So I don't have strong opinions, though I might prefer SW Valley simply for familiarity.

I'm going to refrain from voting on the poll until later in the thread. Though I will give my rankings based on surface level analysis.

[Prickly Pear]

Southwest Valley
Shopping 7
Affordability 10
Parks 7
Schools 7
Community Events 7
Nature Access 3
Job Availability 4
Infrastructure 10
Traffic/Congestion 4
Crime 6
Local politics and taxes 6
HOAs 5
Utilities 8
Nightlife 5
Restaurants 3
Friendliness 8

SW Valley has it's pros of being affordable with good infrastructure. Roads were clean with few potholes with almost every residence being close to a park. Parks didn't seem to offer much besides just grass patches. Schools rank fairly well overall. Nature access seems poor in the SW corner, being in some of the furthest distances from mountains and lakes in comparison to other parts of town. Jobs seem to skip over the West Valley in favor of East Valley. Traffic and congestion is good in town but freeways are a wildly different story, bringing down the ranking. As a Glendale resident I have very strong opinions about Glendale handles its budget, none of which are good opinions, which did bring down the ranking overall for West Valley, on top of me being liberal and not liking Buckeye for that reason. Like most new development, SW Valley is plagued by HOAs, but even more so than other parts of town, bringing the ranking down. Utilities are reasonable in this part of town from what I've heard. Crime is brought down with including Maryvale, though most of the SW Valley is very safe.

[Prickly Pear]

Southeast Valley
Shopping 8
Affordability 6
Parks 4
Schools 8
Community Events 9
Nature Accèss 6
Job Availability 5
Infrastructure 6
Traffic/Congestion 7
Crime 8
Local Politics and taxes 3
HOAs 5
Utilities 6
Nightlife 5
Restaurants 4
Friendliness 7

SE Valley has the advantage of being closer to the better amenities of the Phoenix metro, in Scottsdale and Tempe. Because of this, SE Valley is not *near* as affordable. But this provides benefits in shopping, nightlife, and amenities. While SW Valley is the premier for nightlife in all of West Valley, SE Valley is not the hub of nightlife for East Valley. Nature access includes places like the Superstitions and Lake Roosevelt being closer. Infrastructure quality IMO is not as nice as SW valley, though there is much better traffic and congestion management. Crime is not as bad in the SE Valley, utilities are not as thorough as the SW Valley. Being in closer proximity to Tempe and Scottsdale provides better job access. Politics gets a more negative rating on my behalf due to more social conservatism and a more noticeable religious influence.

[observer53]

Since you have "numerous reasons" for excluding Tempe from the "Southest Valley", including that you think west Mesa is "a lot like Tempe", and you've included any part of Glendale as "southwest", I think I will opt not to participate. Have fun with the latest version of "east vs west".

[JGMotorsport64]

I just want to point out that Tempe south of Apache is suburban as you describe, and Tempe is nothing like West Mesa.

I'm a little confused by what you mean by the utilities being thorough?

SRP>APS and water is cheaper in the EV.

[Bates419]

I live in Estrella. I like that it is affordable, easy access to Estrella Mountains for small hikes. Great HOA with access to 2 fitness centers and pools. No idea about schools, jobs, or politics? We have easy access to everyday shopping needs in under 15 minutes drive. Sports events for BB, hockey, and football are all about 30 minutes from Community. Traffic is rarely an issue. Access to good golf at more reasonable rate that Scottsdale as an example. I shop very little so driving a bit when I do isn't a big deal to me. Overall it's a very nice quiet neighborhood with reasonable prices, we also have a good golf course that is reasonably priced.

[Prickly Pear]

Originally Posted by observer53

Since you have "numerous reasons" for excluding Tempe from the "Southest Valley", including that you think west Mesa is "a lot like Tempe", and you've included any part of Glendale as "southwest", I think I will opt not to participate. Have fun with the latest version of "east vs west".

Tempe is not Southeast Valley and neither is Scottsdale. I'm not including the entire eastern half of town for a reason. I didn't include Peoria nor Surprise for a reason either. Tempe is a lot more urban than many of the other suburbs I listed so yes it does deserve to be excluded. Not going to include Tempe and then have everyone talk about Mill Avenue it's not a fair argument. Tempe is a college town, and a job hub, which none of the other suburbs except for Scottsdale maybe as a job hub can compare to. I did mention Southeast Valley has the benefit of being closer to Tempe and Scottsdale, and gave "points" to SE Valley for that, but no they aren't going to be included. We have threads about Tempe and Scottsdale nearly every day as them being top places for people to relocate too for being more urban and having more jobs, we can have a thread without them. Especially when we are wanting to compare cookie cutter suburbia, which is exactly what this thread is for.

By the way Glendale does qualify as part of the SW, especially near Westgate in case you forgot is in Glendale and so is Luke Air Force Base. Glendale is also part of the NW, hence why I said only south of Northern Avenue.

[Prickly Pear]

Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64

I just want to point out that Tempe south of Apache is suburban as you describe, and Tempe is nothing like West Mesa.

I'm a little confused by what you mean by the utilities being thorough?

SRP>APS and water is cheaper in the EV.

Does SW Valley *not* have SRP? Maybe I need to look at a map, I assumed it did.

[observer53]

Originally Posted by Prickly Pear

Tempe is not Southeast Valley and neither is Scottsdale. I'm not including the entire eastern half of town for a reason. I didn't include Peoria nor Surprise for a reason either. Tempe is a lot more urban than many of the other suburbs I listed so yes it does deserve to be excluded. Not going to include Tempe and then have everyone talk about Mill Avenue it's not a fair argument. Tempe is a college town, and a job hub, which none of the other suburbs except for Scottsdale maybe as a job hub can compare to. I did mention Southeast Valley has the benefit of being closer to Tempe and Scottsdale, and gave "points" to SE Valley for that, but no they aren't going to be included. We have threads about Tempe and Scottsdale nearly every day as them being top places for people to relocate too for being more urban and having more jobs, we can have a thread without them. Especially when we are wanting to compare cookie cutter suburbia, which is exactly what this thread is for.

By the way Glendale does qualify as part of the SW, especially near Westgate in case you forgot is in Glendale and so is Luke Air Force Base. Glendale is also part of the NW, hence why I said only south of Northern Avenue.

Tempe not SE Valley? Oh, give me a break. Scottsdale is not, for sure, some people don't even include Scottsdale in "East Valley". Yes, Tempe is a "college town" but it's also a lovely quiet suburb for those of us who don't live near campus, don't frequent Mill Avenue, and also don't work in Tempe, but commute into Phoenix. Your reasons for leaving it out just don't wash, sorry. And Westgate on the west side is in no way "southwest". Yes, I know Westgate is in Glendale, but it's not SOUTH. "South of Northern Avenue". No, sorry, Glendale is too far north to be southwest.


You can set up your poll however you want, but as someone who used to work with public opinion polls, how they are set up determines whether the results are worth anything.

[Pink Jazz]

One argument against including Tempe in the Southeast Valley is that in those past proposals to create a new county for the East Valley, not all of them included Tempe. All of the proposals at a minimum included Mesa, Chandler, Gilbert, and Queen Creek. Of course, this may have been for political reasons rather than whether or not Tempe is part of the Southeast Valley, since Tempe is more liberal than the other Southeast Valley suburbs.