HELP!!!! Need info re: fighting a Photo Radar Speeding Ticket (Scottsdale: budget, work)

[Bummer]

Originally Posted by RCR

Sorry but it looks to me, judging by all the posts, like you just want to find some validation here for what you have already decided. If you have taken this much time to do the research and come up with precidents and you are that sure you are in the right, then go and fight the ticket. Asking about dodging the server just makes it look like you are trying to get out of something you know you did wrong.

Very valid point, RCR!

This entire scenario could have been avoided merely by respecting the law as well as the other drivers on the road.

[nitram]

Originally Posted by RCR

Sorry but it looks to me, judging by all the posts, like you just want to find some validation here for what you have already decided. If you have taken this much time to do the research and come up with precidents and you are that sure you are in the right, then go and fight the ticket. Asking about dodging the server just makes it look like you are trying to get out of something you know you did wrong.

RCR,You are absolutely right. Time for someone to fess up, pay up and get on with their life. This whole scenario when finally played out will cost the OP more money in time, fines, insurance and whatever else the government will throw at them for being a scofflaw.

[Captain Bill]

I can't believe the extent some people will go to fight a ticket. If I had my car on automatic speed control, (which is extremely difficult to do on the Phoenix highways, so I never use it), and if I knew that my speedometer was correct and I was going speed limit, then I would hire an attorney to prove that the camera was not calibrated correctly.

I got a ticket from a van camera on the side of Hunt Highway once. The photo was very clearly a photo of me in the car, and the license plate was mine.

So I elected to take the defensive driving course and pay the ~$100 fee for that to keep it off my insurance record. That was a lot less time spent than the OP has spent doing research which appears to be an attempt to beat the system.

My advice is: if the camera was wrong then hire an attorney to fight it. If you were speeding, then take the defensive driving course, and slow down next time.

I'm happy to see those cameras out there, even though they got me. I watch my speed now, and hopefully everyone who gets at ticket will also slow down. We'll all be a lot safer on the highways.

[teachr+3]

When I learned that the way the process server "served" the papers was illegal, that made me start to check into everything else further.... and one example after another of the illegal and improper ways that the state is allowing citations to be handled via their photo radar system, and the way the people are being railroaded in the process, incenses me....

[teachr+3]

[quote=Captain Bill;3217810]I can't believe the extent some people will go to fight a ticket. If I had my car on automatic speed control, (which is extremely difficult to do on the Phoenix highways, so I never use it), and if I knew that my speedometer was correct and I was going speed limit, then I would hire an attorney to prove that the camera was not calibrated correctly.

My advice is: if the camera was wrong then hire an attorney to fight it.


I was trying to post here to see if anyone has been in my shoes who has fought (and won) on their own, sans a lawyer. That will be expensive and why should I have to pay a lawyer to prove my innocence against a system that is inarguably established and working under a predetermination of my guilt??? But, I can't even FIND a lawyer who will take a photo radar case, because they ARE so impossible to fight.... That's the problem. I've found lots of information (free, posted on-line FROM a lawyer), but will they take a simple case such as mine, no.... and, like I said, why SHOULD I have to prove my innocence against a computer and a system that is impossible to argue with....???

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by teachr+3

I was trying to post here to see if anyone has been in my shoes who has fought (and won) on their own, sans a lawyer. That will be expensive and why should I have to pay a lawyer to prove my innocence against a system that is inarguably established and working under a predetermination of my guilt??? ???

Here is my bottom line: Were you speeding? If so, pay the ticket. Move on.

If you were not, then fight it - you don't need an attorney to represent you -

But, if you were speeding, admit it and pay the treasury

[Captain Bill]

[quote=teachr+3;3218773]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

I can't believe the extent some people will go to fight a ticket. If I had my car on automatic speed control, (which is extremely difficult to do on the Phoenix highways, so I never use it), and if I knew that my speedometer was correct and I was going speed limit, then I would hire an attorney to prove that the camera was not calibrated correctly.

My advice is: if the camera was wrong then hire an attorney to fight it.


I was trying to post here to see if anyone has been in my shoes who has fought (and won) on their own, sans a lawyer. That will be expensive and why should I have to pay a lawyer to prove my innocence against a system that is inarguably established and working under a predetermination of my guilt??? But, I can't even FIND a lawyer who will take a photo radar case, because they ARE so impossible to fight.... That's the problem. I've found lots of information (free, posted on-line FROM a lawyer), but will they take a simple case such as mine, no.... and, like I said, why SHOULD I have to prove my innocence against a computer and a system that is impossible to argue with....???

You have stated two arguments: One is that the service procedure is illegal and you don't have to respond. If you believe that will work for you, then just ignore the ticket and see what happens.

Second is that the camera system is in error.

You have not been found guilty. You are innocent until proven guilty.

The camera with it's photo of you, your vehicle and your license number, and the speed indicated by the detector is simply the state's evidence against you.

If you feel they are in error then you have been given the opportunity to appear in court and prove that the camera and detector system was not calibrated correctly, and that your speedometer is correct, and that you were not speeding. The judge will determine based on all the evidence if you are guilty or not guilty.

So let's not incorrectly state that our judicial system deems you guilty until proven innocent, because that is not the case.

If you take the defensive driving course, then you are NOT admitting guilt and no report will be made to your insurance company and no points against your driving record.

If you do not respond, then you will be found guilty by default and will pay the consequences.

If you fight it and are found guilty, it will be reported to your insurance company and go on your record.

The choices are yours. Good luck.

Again, I've very happy for the cameras. I got a ticket and took the defensive driving course. I wish there were more cameras because I believe they make us more safe on the highways.

[olecapt]

[quote=Captain Bill;3219270]

Originally Posted by teachr+3

You have stated two arguments: One is that the service procedure is illegal and you don't have to respond. If you believe that will work for you, then just ignore the ticket and see what happens.

Second is that the camera system is in error.

You have not been found guilty. You are innocent until proven guilty.

The camera with it's photo of you, your vehicle and your license number, and the speed indicated by the detector is simply the state's evidence against you.

If you feel they are in error then you have been given the opportunity to appear in court and prove that the camera and detector system was not calibrated correctly, and that your speedometer is correct, and that you were not speeding. The judge will determine based on all the evidence if you are guilty or not guilty.

So let's not incorrectly state that our judicial system deems you guilty until proven innocent, because that is not the case.

If you take the defensive driving course, then you are NOT admitting guilt and no report will be made to your insurance company and no points against your driving record.

If you do not respond, then you will be found guilty by default and will pay the consequences.

If you fight it and are found guilty, it will be reported to your insurance company and go on your record.

The choices are yours. Good luck.

Again, I've very happy for the cameras. I got a ticket and took the defensive driving course. I wish there were more cameras because I believe they make us more safe on the highways.

Beyond a reasonable doubt is a criminial standard...not a civil one.

In most traiffic matters you are guilty until proven innocent. The argument is that it is a priviledge and not a right and therefore no right is lost and no "beyond a reasonable doubt".

As a practical matter it would be very difficult if not impossible to prove guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

[FutureMover08]

Are these photo radars common in Phoenix? I knew they existed but I don't think I've been anywhere that has them.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by FutureMover08

Are these photo radars common in Phoenix? I knew they existed but I don't think I've been anywhere that has them.

Becoming more and more common