Our Exploratory Trip to the Phoenix Area/55+ Communities (Mesa, Scottsdale: HOA fees, hotel)

[NorCalRunner]

First of all, I think GeneR did an amazing job breaking down his visit and describing the places he looked at and his thoughts about each, but that was some time ago. Think it's time for an updated take on that kind of search.

Our search was limited to pretty much the west valley, and we focused on Sun City Festival (Buckeye), PebbleCreek (Goodyear), Trilogy Vistancia (Peoria), and Victory at Verrado (Buckeye). We made two quick stops at Trilogy Encanterra (we were in the area, had a free day) and CantaMia at Estrella.

We are quite new to this kind of lifestyle concept, so this was not just an exploration of specific communities, but of the lifestyle in general.

Our first stop was Sun City Festival. Now I get what everyone means when they say "it's out there". Festival truly is about 12 miles from anything but a gas station convenience store. Church, groceries, medical services, any other kind of shopping are all 12 miles or more from the community.

On the plus side, we loved the layout and amenities, and the people couldn't have been nicer. Prices are pretty competitive compared to the other communities we looked at. As our first 55+ experience, we were very pleasantly surprised with the carefully kept grounds, the pools, the craft/meeting rooms and the very recently renovated restaurant/outdoor patio bar.

On the negative side, we aren't comfortable being that far from services and shopping. Also, as we got further into our trip we realized that Festival didn't seem as lush and green as other communities -- beautifully maintained, but a bit brown and dry around the edges.

After Festival, we had two free days as trying to schedule stay-n-play visits back to back across all four communities was impossible. We stayed at a hotel in Goodyear and spent the next two days exploring downtown Scottsdale, downtown Phoenix, Mesa, and the ASU campus (gorgeous campus, btw). We had a free afternoon and decided to check out Trilogy Encanterra.

Trilogy Encanterra is absolutely gorgeous, but it's structured more like a country or golf club, with two levels of club fees to choose from. It also seemed shockingly quiet for a beautiful Sunday afternoon. Pools were empty, barely anyone on the course, no one in the common areas or the restaurants/lounges. Our tour guide told us they have quite a few part-time residents, so not sure how active and full this community is on a year-round basis. Lovely, but not for us, and not really located where we want to be.

The next morning, we had half a day before checking in at PebbleCreek, so we popped into CantaMia. It's very pretty, set in the Estrella mountains, lovely grounds, quite small. However, our tour guide was the only guy on the planet who hadn't gotten the #metoo #timesup memo, and had his hands not only all over me, but was weirdly grabby with my husband, too. We high-tailed it out of there. Note to salespeople: keep your hands off the potential buyers. Creepy as heck.

Next, we spent some time at PebbleCreek.

From the moment we set foot on the property, PebbleCreek blew us away. The grounds are lush, beautifully maintained and include a large number of mature trees, which made it feel a little less bare than Festival. As for the community, well, from early a.m. until evening, plenty of people were playing pickleball, tennis, golf, utilizing the craft rooms (which are incredibly well equipped for everything from jewelry making to woodworking to all kinds of sewing and everything in between). People were playing cards, attending pilates and yoga classes, water aerobics, the putting and driving greens were packed. Plenty of people were up early and enjoying coffee in the lounge area, eating in the restaurant in the evening and using the casual lounge/patio bar during the day. This was the busiest, most active, most enthusiastic community we visited during our entire stay. PebbleCreek was now the bar everything else had to meet. Yes, you can see and hear the jets from Luke Air Force Base. They really didn't bother us, and you can hear them a bit at both Trilogy Vistancia and Victory at Verrado as well.

Our third overnight stay was with Trilogy Vistancia. By this time, we'd heard both positive and negative comments about the place from residents and potential buyers at Festival and PebbleCreek. We put them out of our mind and gave it our best shot.

The first thing we noticed was how quiet it was. No one about at all. Most of the golfers seemed to be day-trippers (the course is public). Even the other sports activities were sparsely populated. Very few people in the craft and meeting rooms. No one walking, no one out biking. Not a soul at the Mita Club (newer of two general clubhouses). Not too many folks at Kiva Club (older clubhouse).


The restaurant, V's Taproom, is a public restaurant set at the very edge of the newer half of the development and seemed to be frequented by golfers and younger people, perhaps from the greater, all-ages Vistancia community. It's not that I expect to go out to dinner every night, but I had to wonder where all the 55+ folks were.

Over the course of the next few days, we discovered that the negative comments we'd heard rang more true than the positive. It had been described to us as clubby, stuck up, stand-offish, and we got the same vibe. One man, after asking my husband what else we'd seen, tossed off "Oh, Festival, that's were the people who can't afford Trilogy go", which is exactly the kind of comment that sends me screaming in the other direction.

Onward to Victory!

Okay, Victory is spectacular. The setting is breathtaking. You know you're somewhere special, at least physically, right away. You couldn't dream up a more beautiful backdrop if you tried. Unlike other communities, Victory creates a true desert landscape, right in the foothills of the White Tank Mountains. If you are in the area, definitely plan on lunch or dinner at the restaurant just for the views -- desert, sky, mountains, and twinkling lights of the valley below. Stunning.

However, it's small, growing very slowly compared to other communities, and is very, very quiet. No one around at all. Gorgeous pool, small but well-equipped fitness center, a handful of pickleball and tennis courts (all empty), and a small art studio (empty). It doesn't seem like they make much of an effort to foster community.

Part of this may be that one entity is the master planner, and there are now 6 separate, unrelated builders to choose from. Also, it seemed like they came in with luxury, larger home designers in the beginning, then quickly invited smaller home designers on board when they realized very few retirees want 3000+ square foot homes to care for. Also concerning is that one builder is dropping out after Phase I is finished, and the two newest builders are known for very small floor plans. However, in spite of the ghost town feel, we were so awed by the setting, we gave it very, very serious consideration.

Our rankings by the end of our stay are as follows:

6) CantaMia
5) Trilogy Encanterra
4) Trilogy Vistancia
3) Sun City Festival
2) Victory at Verrado
1) PebbleCreek (Winner!)

[Sunaimer]

Great info. What are the price ranges in these different communities and HOAs or other items included/not included?

[thinkalot]

Don't pay too much attention to what is lush and green. That is now. Next year it may not be.

I had a sibling that left their 55+ because of distance. 12 miles every time you want to go somewhere or need something gets old real quick.

I know a few people from PebbleCreek and they love it.

[NorCalRunner]

Originally Posted by Sunaimer

Great info. What are the price ranges in these different communities and HOAs or other items included/not included?

They all range from the mid-200s up. The Trilogy communities skew more expensive for a mid-range home, and Victory has some luxury builders on board, so you can build a pretty big, expensive house.

CantaMia, price-wise, was surprisingly more affordable than I thought it would be, but I had pretty much shut down after the third time the guy touched me, so i stopped paying attention.

PebbleCreek ranges from the mid 200s up to mid 400s if you want 2500+ square feet. Their lot premiums were higher overall than anyone else's, actually, lot-to-lot, however. So full package, you would probably spend in the high 300s if you want some open space and a mid-size home.

More than one person told us (at different communities) that it's cheapest to buy the basic home with no bells and whistles inside, rip it all out and contract out for your own cabinet and flooring upgrades, but that's a big project. Things like crown molding, added french doors or barn doors, maybe, because those projects aren't really that disruptive, but ripping out tile or tearing down cabinetry on Day 1 seems like an awfully big disruption to go through to save money. If you're handy, or enjoy project planning and being your own general contractor, however, it probably would save you ten or twenty thousand dollars.

I definitely would recommend contracting a third party vendor for landscaping and outdoor extras like a built in BBQ or firepit. Just make sure you get the gas stubs. The "preferred landscapers" are generally more expensive than local market pricing (I bet half those guys contract out at cheaper prices when off duty anyway).

[SFBayBoomer]

Originally Posted by NorCalRunner

I definitely would recommend contracting a third party vendor for landscaping and outdoor extras like a built in BBQ or firepit. Just make sure you get the gas stubs.

Do they all allow smelly, outdoor burning? Is wood-burning allowed?

I don't live in an HOA, but I would buy into one if it had strong restrictions against outdoor burning. We can hardly use our backyard here in the afternoons when we most want to be out because of the horrid, smoky air of various pits, BBQ's, etc.

[MalteseJane]

Originally Posted by SFBayBoomer

Do they all allow smelly, outdoor burning? Is wood-burning allowed?

I don't live in an HOA, but I would buy into one if it had strong restrictions against outdoor burning. We can hardly use our backyard here in the afternoons when we most want to be out because of the horrid, smoky air of various pits, BBQ's, etc.

Wood-burning is not allowed in Festival.

[wase4711]

we didnt want to buy in one of these 55+ communities for a variety of reasons, but, we have friends in Trilogy at Vistancia, and when we go there, I dont notice anything like you have stated here; always very busy, and active, and if we wanted that type of "golf course/country club" living, we would have definitely given that strong consideration.

In the end, we decided we wanted to live with all ages, and not in a uniform, cookie cutter type of community, and wanted to be around and interact within a "regular" neighbor hood.
If you want that type of lifestyle for the rest of your life, then it will work out for you; be aware that the HOA and fees in those communities can be pretty high; I think my friend pays almost 300 per month HOA in Vistancia, and I couldnt see paying that much in any HOA, even with all the close by amenities..

[SFBayBoomer]

Originally Posted by MalteseJane

Wood-burning is not allowed in Festival.

Thank you.

[MalteseJane]

Originally Posted by wase4711

we didnt want to buy in one of these 55+ communities for a variety of reasons, but, we have friends in Trilogy at Vistancia, and when we go there, I dont notice anything like you have stated here; always very busy, and active, and if we wanted that type of "golf course/country club" living, we would have definitely given that strong consideration.

In the end, we decided we wanted to live with all ages, and not in a uniform, cookie cutter type of community, and wanted to be around and interact within a "regular" neighbor hood.
If you want that type of lifestyle for the rest of your life, then it will work out for you; be aware that the HOA and fees in those communities can be pretty high; I think my friend pays almost 300 per month HOA in Vistancia, and I couldnt see paying that much in any HOA, even with all the close by amenities..

One reason we did not buy in Vistancia is because of the HOA fees. If I remember well, they were around $150 in 2007. Now they are at $300 ? WOW !!! Our fees in Festival are right now $133/month.

[20yrsinBranson]

Originally Posted by NorCalRunner

6) CantaMia
5) Trilogy Encanterra
4) Trilogy Vistancia
3) Sun City Festival
2) Victory at Verrado
1) PebbleCreek (Winner!)

I see you are extroverts. Believe me when I tell you that living someplace where you are forced to interact with people every day is an introvert's worst nightmare. But glad you found some place you like.