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Old 04-27-2018, 10:41 AM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,973 posts, read 24,125,291 times
Reputation: 15586

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
You strike at the core of the problem in America: it's all about "vacation", time off, having fun and seldom about hard work.
Yep, it's all about ME and RIGHT NOW!
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Old 04-27-2018, 10:43 AM
 
9,241 posts, read 7,790,498 times
Reputation: 2217
Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitN8V View Post
That’s a very short-sighted take on this. A few days over one summer versus a lifetime of education. You’re missing the big picture.
The strike might last longer than a few days. This interrupts everyone, even adults without kids.

Wrong way to go about it.
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Old 04-27-2018, 10:48 AM
 
9,241 posts, read 7,790,498 times
Reputation: 2217
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
"The kids" are negatively affected by crumbling schools, out of date or no school books, large class sizes, 2000 unfilled teacher slots etc.
How would protesting during the summer cause anything to happen? No leverage no listening, that is a FACT.
Again, by all reports they tried to settle this before the walk out but those in power refused to hear of it or even meet over it. The Governor was told "talk or walk", he ignored so here we are...

What choice did they have at that point?
On another subject, I'd like a forensic audit of where all the lottery money went after it hit the general fund?
Why is teacher pay at the top vs money , donations and grants for books?

And will more money help? We spend too much money on education with mediocre results. Why aren't other solutions bought to the table?
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Old 04-27-2018, 10:48 AM
 
7,948 posts, read 13,720,138 times
Reputation: 9159
Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
The strike might last longer than a few days. This interrupts everyone, even adults without kids.

Wrong way to go about it.
And how else do you suggest they gain the leverage they need? Again, your vacation plans aren’t that important.
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Old 04-27-2018, 10:52 AM
 
9,241 posts, read 7,790,498 times
Reputation: 2217
Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitN8V View Post
And how else do you suggest they gain the leverage they need? Again, your vacation plans aren’t that important.
And you want support on this issue when anyone else's life and child is not important?
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Old 04-27-2018, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Chandler, AZ
3,424 posts, read 3,325,655 times
Reputation: 4821
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
The problem I have with the logic of "I'm fine with schools getting additional pay, it is the walk out" is what else would they do? Educators have been promised the moon and gotten just a slight thrust from Earth. Prop 123, was overturned thanks to a lawsuit by Jeff DeWitt. Ducey didn't want to talk to educators. He forced it and honestly I can't trust that Ducebag for the same reasons I couldn't vote for him in 2014 and will never vote for him again. The incumbents in the legislature, I'll remember what those yella belly e-mailing cowards did in August and again in October.
Hmm...maybe come up with a solution rather than just demands? I know there was talk within AEA regarding a ballot initiative and it was being pushed by a few within the teacher community. It would sidestep the political ramifications of imposing a new tax if the public voted on and approved a new tax outside of the legislative process. Plus the plan could be written in a way that establishes a fund the tax revenue goes into to make sure politicians can't raid it and it goes directly to the districts?

We all know school funding is a problem. They have/had community support. A well thought out Ballot Initiative and subsequent campaign to get it passed would have been a proactive approach rather than a reactive walk out. I posted the budget earlier...where would you cut in order to give Education the requested increase?
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Old 04-27-2018, 11:03 AM
 
7,948 posts, read 13,720,138 times
Reputation: 9159
Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
And you want support on this issue when anyone else's life and child is not important?
Again, the big picture is clearly lost on you.
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Old 04-27-2018, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Chandler, AZ
3,424 posts, read 3,325,655 times
Reputation: 4821
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
"The kids" are negatively affected by crumbling schools, out of date or no school books, large class sizes, 2000 unfilled teacher slots etc.
How would protesting during the summer cause anything to happen? No leverage no listening, that is a FACT.
Again, by all reports they tried to settle this before the walk out but those in power refused to hear of it or even meet over it. The Governor was told "talk or walk", he ignored so here we are...

What choice did they have at that point?
On another subject, I'd like a forensic audit of where all the lottery money went after it hit the general fund?
I keep being told that...not sure which schools are "crumbling" or where they don't have text books...but then again I live in the CUSD bubble where we voted Bonds to pay for a lot of those shortcomings. CUSD also runs a VERY conservative budget that makes sure there is money to cover what they need to cover. I understand that there are many districts that do not. I am sure Alhambra or some of the less affluent districts are having this problem? Sorry, not trying to sound elitist or anything...I just have not witnessed it.

Gov. Ducey DID meet with Superintendents and individual teachers, he drew the line at meeting with the AEA as they have no bargaining power and are endorsing his opponent. He put together a plan to get the teachers a pay raise and move some funds around within the budget to help get more money in the classroom but we just don't have an additional $1.5B being requested. Besides, that money is going to be sent to the Districts...what they individually do with that money is not regulated. The big question is...if SOMEHOW the State came up with the requested additional funding and dispersed that to the Districts...how much of that money is actually going to land in the Teacher's paychecks and how much is going to be skimmed and used elsewhere?

Yeah but this is all the Governors' fault.
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Old 04-27-2018, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
5,618 posts, read 4,655,999 times
Reputation: 8110
Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitN8V View Post
And how else do you suggest they gain the leverage they need? Again, your vacation plans aren’t that important.
I'm sorry, but the children's education is more important. Making them stay home while teachers walk out is selfish. Extending their school year over this is ridiculous. Regarding vacation,that is time off that has been accrued and earned over the years. That's quite different than a strike.


Teachers striking during normal school hours is the wrong thing to do. At my office alone, we are missing 4 people who have to stay home with their kids because they cant find babysitters, which is hurting our business. We have people working mad OT to try and make ends meet here because of this situation. And now our customers are suffering because of this, too. Its ridiculous. These teachers can strike during summer break, in which they have months of downtime to do so. They think theyre accomplishing something, but what they're really doing is upsetting parents, workers, etc. These teachers are like the pro-Hillary and BLM losers who blocked highways. They think theyre helping their cause, but they're really hurting themselves.
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Old 04-27-2018, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
34,608 posts, read 18,807,369 times
Reputation: 12407
Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtAZ View Post
Hmm...maybe come up with a solution rather than just demands? I know there was talk within AEA regarding a ballot initiative and it was being pushed by a few within the teacher community. It would sidestep the political ramifications of imposing a new tax if the public voted on and approved a new tax outside of the legislative process. Plus the plan could be written in a way that establishes a fund the tax revenue goes into to make sure politicians can't raid it and it goes directly to the districts?

We all know school funding is a problem. They have/had community support. A well thought out Ballot Initiative and subsequent campaign to get it passed would have been a proactive approach rather than a reactive walk out. I posted the budget earlier...where would you cut in order to give Education the requested increase?
How would a solution happen if Ducey didn't even talk to them? Anyone can come up with a solution but unless a politician is there to hear it, how would it be adopted? The Ducebag contradicted himself when it came to working with educators during his NBC-12 interview. On the one hand, he said he would but then wouldn't talk to Joe Thomas of AEA. So yeah, he cooked his goose in my book.

A tax increase. Republican Gov. candidate and former State rep Ken Bennett put forth a flat tax on 100k income earners and up and was in favor of the 1-cent sales tax. I would even throw the pot tax but lock box the 1-cent sales tax and pot tax revenue and not general fund those. That's a start.

I would not change anything else funding wise, all others have need though some may open up with Medicaid expansions going away if Obamacare is further chipped away. That's the only extra money I could see allocated though that was federal grant money.

The walkout I think was to do this legislatively since ballot initiatives haven't worked. As I cited before, Prop 123 was shot down due to a lawsuit by Jeff DeWitt.

The teachers and support staff are sick and tired of promises and Lucy pulling the football away, this was their only option.
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