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Old 04-27-2018, 11:15 AM
 
7,947 posts, read 13,725,831 times
Reputation: 9159

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG CATS View Post
I'm sorry, but the children's education is more important. Making them stay home while teachers walk out is selfish. Extending their school year over this is ridiculous. Regarding vacation,that is time off that has been accrued and earned over the years. That's quite different than a strike.


Teachers striking during normal school hours is the wrong thing to do. At my office alone, we are missing 4 people who have to stay home with their kids because they cant find babysitters, which is hurting our business. We have people working mad OT to try and make ends meet here because of this situation. And now our customers are suffering because of this, too. Its ridiculous. These teachers can strike during summer break, in which they have months of downtime to do so. They think theyre accomplishing something, but what they're really doing is upsetting parents, workers, etc. These teachers are like the pro-Hillary and BLM losers who blocked highways. They think theyre helping their cause, but they're really hurting themselves.
You too are only looking at this from a myopic perspective. In order for long-lasting change, leverage is needed. Several days of inconvenience versus a lifetime of better education is not a difficult equation to evaluate, but it seems to be stumping some of you.
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Old 04-27-2018, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Chandler, AZ
3,425 posts, read 3,328,767 times
Reputation: 4826
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
How would a solution happen if Ducey didn't even talk to them? Anyone can come up with a solution but unless a politician is there to hear it, how would it be adopted? The Ducebag contradicted himself when it came to working with educators during his NBC-12 interview. On the one hand, he said he would but then wouldn't talk to Joe Thomas of AEA. So yeah, he cooked his goose in my book.

A tax increase. Republican Gov. candidate and former State rep Ken Bennett put forth a flat tax on 100k income earners and up and was in favor of the 1-cent sales tax. I would even throw the pot tax but lock box the 1-cent sales tax and pot tax revenue and not general fund those. That's a start.

I would not change anything else funding wise, all others have need though some may open up with Medicaid expansions going away if Obamacare is further chipped away. That's the only extra money I could see allocated though that was federal grant money.

The walkout I think was to do this legislatively since ballot initiatives haven't worked. As I cited before, Prop 123 was shot down due to a lawsuit by Jeff DeWitt.

The teachers and support staff are sick and tired of promises and Lucy pulling the football away, this was their only option.
I hear what you are saying...and let's say the legislature DID put something together and pass it. Would the educators accept that they got what they wanted or say it is more of "The Ducebag"'s tricks? Or can we actually see this for what it is...an election year stunt to promote David Garcia?
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Old 04-27-2018, 11:22 AM
 
7,947 posts, read 13,725,831 times
Reputation: 9159
Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtAZ View Post
I hear what you are saying...and let's say the legislature DID put something together and pass it. Would the educators accept that they got what they wanted or say it is more of "The Ducebag"'s tricks? Or can we actually see this for what it is...an election year stunt to promote David Garcia?
Not everything is a conspiracy.
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Old 04-27-2018, 11:24 AM
 
Location: northwest valley, az
3,056 posts, read 1,813,415 times
Reputation: 4169
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG CATS View Post
I'm sorry, but the children's education is more important. Making them stay home while teachers walk out is selfish. Extending their school year over this is ridiculous. Regarding vacation,that is time off that has been accrued and earned over the years. That's quite different than a strike.


Teachers striking during normal school hours is the wrong thing to do. At my office alone, we are missing 4 people who have to stay home with their kids because they cant find babysitters, which is hurting our business. We have people working mad OT to try and make ends meet here because of this situation. And now our customers are suffering because of this, too. Its ridiculous. These teachers can strike during summer break, in which they have months of downtime to do so. They think theyre accomplishing something, but what they're really doing is upsetting parents, workers, etc. These teachers are like the pro-Hillary and BLM losers who blocked highways. They think theyre helping their cause, but they're really hurting themselves.
Both BC and I come from Illinois, so we have seen first hand, many times, what these types of walk outs end up doing; they alienate the public from the teachers, and, in the long term, actually have a negative impact of the public's perception of teachers, and any other group/union who does this..

Here again, negotiating in the Summer, when the impact is not so severe on the PARENTS, and THE CHILDREN, would have been a much better idea, and that would have fostered long term support from the public for the teachers....Standing above the fray, and giving this lame Governor and Legislature the opportunity over the summer to come to a long term, sustainable solution would be viewed much more positively in the theater of public opinion.The teachers could have said, "we didnt want to disrupt the students and their families while school was in session, so WE decided to negotiate during summer break"

And, dont forget, the legislature may decide to play hardball, and this could go on for weeks, which would be a real disaster for the teachers in the eyes of the public..
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Old 04-27-2018, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Chandler, AZ
3,425 posts, read 3,328,767 times
Reputation: 4826
Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitN8V View Post
Not everything is a conspiracy.
Didn't say it was a conspiracy...it is a thinly veiled subterfuge.
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Old 04-27-2018, 11:27 AM
 
7,947 posts, read 13,725,831 times
Reputation: 9159
Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtAZ View Post
Didn't say it was a conspiracy...it is a thinly veiled subterfuge.
Semantics. To assume that your conspiracy theory is correct, that this is all some wild plot to elect a Democrat, you would have to consider the actual problem at hand to be overinflated or fabricated. There is a real problem here and it’s not a ploy.
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Old 04-27-2018, 11:31 AM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,973 posts, read 24,134,427 times
Reputation: 15586
Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtAZ View Post
I keep being told that...not sure which schools are "crumbling" or where they don't have text books...but then again I live in the CUSD bubble where we voted Bonds to pay for a lot of those shortcomings. CUSD also runs a VERY conservative budget that makes sure there is money to cover what they need to cover. I understand that there are many districts that do not. I am sure Alhambra or some of the less affluent districts are having this problem? Sorry, not trying to sound elitist or anything...I just have not witnessed it.

Gov. Ducey DID meet with Superintendents and individual teachers, he drew the line at meeting with the AEA as they have no bargaining power and are endorsing his opponent. He put together a plan to get the teachers a pay raise and move some funds around within the budget to help get more money in the classroom but we just don't have an additional $1.5B being requested. Besides, that money is going to be sent to the Districts...what they individually do with that money is not regulated. The big question is...if SOMEHOW the State came up with the requested additional funding and dispersed that to the Districts...how much of that money is actually going to land in the Teacher's paychecks and how much is going to be skimmed and used elsewhere?

Yeah but this is all the Governors' fault.
Here's a recent one for you:
Quote:
Parents were left scrambling after they were told not to send their children to school for the next three days.

Two elementary schools were forced to close after they were declared "too unsafe" and the schools could be closed for weeks.
Glendale schools deemed unsafe, close for structural repairs - Story | KSAZ

Here's another interesting article/study done by NPR about Schools nationwide and $$$
Quote:
In Arizona, which is our best guess for the state you’re currently in, the average district spends $7,733 per student, less than the nationwide average. You can explore further or search for a district by name below.

Here's one cause for alarm: The achievement gap between this nation's wealthiest and poorest students is growing dramatically, not shrinking.

We'll begin each week with a question to guide our coverage. For this, our first week:

"How do we pay for our schools?"

And the answer starts with Satan.

Yes, that Satan.
And, very enlightening:
Quote:
Across the country, schools in low-wealth districts face tough choices. Not only do they struggle to raise money locally, but many saw drastic cuts in state funding during and after the Great Recession.

According to this study from the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, at least 31 states spent less money per student in 2014 than they did in 2008. During that time, the study found, local funding also dropped in 18 states.
The rural Coolidge Unified School District, southeast of Phoenix, had already cut its arts and music classes as well as its librarians. But that wasn't enough. The district still struggled to attract and keep good teachers — because it couldn't pay them well.

So, Coolidge shaved a day off its school week. On Fridays, the district's teachers and students stay home. Because the schools are locked tight.

"To achieve savings," says Superintendent Charie Wallace, "we couldn't have people flipping on lights or turning on a computer."

The promise of a regular three-day weekend and a modest salary hike cut the district's teacher turnover rate in half this year.

"Anything I can do to pay teachers," Wallace says, "because they are the key to student achievement. They are the ones that deliver the goods."

That may explain why nearly 1 in 5 Arizona districts now uses the four-day school week.
To make ends meet, schools are cutting back everywhere they can. And some are hitting bone.
https://www.npr.org/2016/04/18/47425...-money-problem
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Old 04-27-2018, 11:35 AM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,973 posts, read 24,134,427 times
Reputation: 15586
Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtAZ View Post
I keep being told that...not sure which schools are "crumbling" or where they don't have text books...but then again I live in the CUSD bubble where we voted Bonds to pay for a lot of those shortcomings. CUSD also runs a VERY conservative budget that makes sure there is money to cover what they need to cover. I understand that there are many districts that do not. I am sure Alhambra or some of the less affluent districts are having this problem? Sorry, not trying to sound elitist or anything...I just have not witnessed it.

Gov. Ducey DID meet with Superintendents and individual teachers, he drew the line at meeting with the AEA as they have no bargaining power and are endorsing his opponent. He put together a plan to get the teachers a pay raise and move some funds around within the budget to help get more money in the classroom but we just don't have an additional $1.5B being requested. Besides, that money is going to be sent to the Districts...what they individually do with that money is not regulated. The big question is...if SOMEHOW the State came up with the requested additional funding and dispersed that to the Districts...how much of that money is actually going to land in the Teacher's paychecks and how much is going to be skimmed and used elsewhere?

Yeah but this is all the Governors' fault.
Did you look at Ducey's proposal? Did you see who actually got raises and who didn't and exactly where the $$$ came from?
Like you I thought "whew, Ducey stepped up and dodged a bullet" until the details were revealed. I can see why it didn't get much fan fair from anyone of note.
I also should have said the "Governor AND Legislature" as Ducey is not an island unto himself, he can't pull something out of his arse, it needs to come from the Legislature first. Sorry for my oversight...
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Old 04-27-2018, 11:46 AM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,973 posts, read 24,134,427 times
Reputation: 15586
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG CATS View Post
I'm sorry, but the children's education is more important. Making them stay home while teachers walk out is selfish. Extending their school year over this is ridiculous. Regarding vacation,that is time off that has been accrued and earned over the years. That's quite different than a strike.


Teachers striking during normal school hours is the wrong thing to do. At my office alone, we are missing 4 people who have to stay home with their kids because they cant find babysitters, which is hurting our business. We have people working mad OT to try and make ends meet here because of this situation. And now our customers are suffering because of this, too. Its ridiculous. These teachers can strike during summer break, in which they have months of downtime to do so. They think theyre accomplishing something, but what they're really doing is upsetting parents, workers, etc. These teachers are like the pro-Hillary and BLM losers who blocked highways. They think theyre helping their cause, but they're really hurting themselves.
Think of this as trickle down. The government is NOT going to listen to the teachers until forced to do so as has been factually born out over the last couple of years. You are aware that the strike is not totally about THEIR pay but the pay of everyone at the schools right? Everyone who's pay was reduced years ago and never returned? So, it's NOT just about them.

Once the threat of political fallout that could cost politicians big time they started to listen but decided to play a game of chicken figuring the teachers would back down or be happy with a partial solution. The government then stopped talking/listening so now we're at the point where the teachers have to teach the government that they're serious this time.
So, yes it's an inconvenience to parents but an inconvenience that could have been avoided by real/serious negotiations between the teachers and the government...
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Old 04-27-2018, 11:50 AM
 
17,824 posts, read 38,670,081 times
Reputation: 10476
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
From the "union" website:



LOL! Not much has changed in Arizona.

The AEA (Arizona Education Association) calls itself a "professional association" . Decades ago, when the American Federation of Teachers (which is, IIRC, affiliated with the AFL-CIO) https://www.aft.org/affiliate/08002 came into Arizona, they were seen as competitors to the AEA. Neither has ever had any kind of bargaining authority, but I know the AFT did, and perhaps still does, represent employees in certain employment related actions. The AFT seems to have a lessening presence, as it no longer has paid staff.
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