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Old 04-27-2018, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Chandler, AZ
3,427 posts, read 3,341,682 times
Reputation: 4831

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
Did you look at Ducey's proposal? Did you see who actually got raises and who didn't and exactly where the $$$ came from?
Like you I thought "whew, Ducey stepped up and dodged a bullet" until the details were revealed. I can see why it didn't get much fan fair from anyone of note.
I also should have said the "Governor AND Legislature" as Ducey is not an island unto himself, he can't pull something out of his arse, it needs to come from the Legislature first. Sorry for my oversight...
Hey, I am not mad jimj...sorry if that post came off as snarky. I just think there are many facets to this problem and it is not going to be solved without new taxes. There just isn't any money in the budget or in the current "revenue" (our tax money) being collected by the State to cover any new funding. Unfortunately, new taxes tend to hit everyone, including the teachers.

And yes, I looked at the proposal...there was definitely some "if"s and "hopefully"s in the plan.
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Old 04-27-2018, 11:52 AM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,973 posts, read 24,160,694 times
Reputation: 15587
Quote:
Originally Posted by wase4711 View Post
Both BC and I come from Illinois, so we have seen first hand, many times, what these types of walk outs end up doing; they alienate the public from the teachers, and, in the long term, actually have a negative impact of the public's perception of teachers, and any other group/union who does this..

Here again, negotiating in the Summer, when the impact is not so severe on the PARENTS, and THE CHILDREN, would have been a much better idea, and that would have fostered long term support from the public for the teachers....Standing above the fray, and giving this lame Governor and Legislature the opportunity over the summer to come to a long term, sustainable solution would be viewed much more positively in the theater of public opinion.The teachers could have said, "we didnt want to disrupt the students and their families while school was in session, so WE decided to negotiate during summer break"

And, dont forget, the legislature may decide to play hardball, and this could go on for weeks, which would be a real disaster for the teachers in the eyes of the public..
So, exactly what motivation would the state have to negotiate with teachers over the summer? You realize this subject has been ongoing for quite a while now as it is? You notice that NOTHING has ever happened until the recent very real possibility of a walkout was put forth, then the politicians started scrambling for cover.
At the end of the day this comes down to do you want a strike now or at the start of the year because it WAS going to occur...
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Old 04-27-2018, 11:57 AM
 
9,241 posts, read 7,801,908 times
Reputation: 2217
Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitN8V View Post
Again, the big picture is clearly lost on you.
This is upsetting everybody. Even adults without children.
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Old 04-27-2018, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
34,711 posts, read 18,879,847 times
Reputation: 12432
Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtAZ View Post
I hear what you are saying...and let's say the legislature DID put something together and pass it. Would the educators accept that they got what they wanted or say it is more of "The Ducebag"'s tricks? Or can we actually see this for what it is...an election year stunt to promote David Garcia?
They would be foolish to do that but I would remember what wasn't covered in the elections. Instead we got the bullcrap of walking out on the vote.
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Old 04-27-2018, 11:58 AM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,973 posts, read 24,160,694 times
Reputation: 15587
Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtAZ View Post
Hey, I am not mad jimj...sorry if that post came off as snarky. I just think there are many facets to this problem and it is not going to be solved without new taxes. There just isn't any money in the budget or in the current "revenue" (our tax money) being collected by the State to cover any new funding. Unfortunately, new taxes tend to hit everyone, including the teachers.
I agree with you with one caveat. Any new money has to be iron clad in writing and law that it goes where it's promised to go and can't be stolen to pay Paul like has happened with all other monies. The state had the $$$ prior to 2008 and are back to pre-collapse levels so why can't they return to 2008 levels?

The answer is priorities and that they just don't see education staff salaries as a priority because they've been allowed to walk all over the staff for years with no consequences. The staff is pissed so now there's a consequence.

Budget shortfall? Well, lets just "borrow" some $$$$ from education, they don't need it. THAT needs to end.
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Old 04-27-2018, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
34,711 posts, read 18,879,847 times
Reputation: 12432
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
So, exactly what motivation would the state have to negotiate with teachers over the summer? You realize this subject has been ongoing for quite a while now as it is? You notice that NOTHING has ever happened until the recent very real possibility of a walkout was put forth, then the politicians started scrambling for cover.
At the end of the day this comes down to do you want a strike now or at the start of the year because it WAS going to occur...
Exactly. How can teachers negotiate without threatening a walk out? They have no leverage even with the walk out because the legislature walked out when they adjourned for the weekend. They don't give two s#!+s about education and this truly covers it.
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Old 04-27-2018, 12:05 PM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,973 posts, read 24,160,694 times
Reputation: 15587
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
Exactly. How can teachers negotiate without threatening a walk out? They have no leverage even with the walk out because the legislature walked out when they adjourned for the weekend. They don't give two s#!+s about education and this truly covers it.
I thought the same thing when they walked out at what, 2pm yesterday? The first day of the walkout that they could've stayed late and for the next 3 days trying to come to some agreement and instead they freaking go HOME? Talk about no respect.

Who is it again that's causing parents inconvenience?
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Old 04-27-2018, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Chandler, AZ
3,427 posts, read 3,341,682 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitN8V View Post
Semantics. To assume that your conspiracy theory is correct, that this is all some wild plot to elect a Democrat, you would have to consider the actual problem at hand to be overinflated or fabricated. There is a real problem here and it’s not a ploy.
I'll just leave this one here for you then:

AEA Endorses David Garcia
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Old 04-27-2018, 12:08 PM
 
Location: northwest valley, az
3,064 posts, read 1,824,792 times
Reputation: 4186
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
So, exactly what motivation would the state have to negotiate with teachers over the summer? You realize this subject has been ongoing for quite a while now as it is? You notice that NOTHING has ever happened until the recent very real possibility of a walkout was put forth, then the politicians started scrambling for cover.
At the end of the day this comes down to do you want a strike now or at the start of the year because it WAS going to occur...
I agree; a walk out of some sort was probably inevitable; the only difference with doing it at the start of the school year would have been the teachers could have had the general public on their side, by having public forums, discussions, and warning everyone that the start of school would be postponed unless sincere discussions are started. Doing it now, and with this probably going into next week, just gets the general public mad at the teachers, AND, hopefully, the politicians who were too lazy to work this weekend and get something hammered out..

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
Exactly. How can teachers negotiate without threatening a walk out? They have no leverage even with the walk out because the legislature walked out when they adjourned for the weekend. They don't give two s#!+s about education and this truly covers it.
Unfortunately, the teachers walking out didnt stop the legislature from talking their "hard earned" weekend off, so unfortunately, that strategy didnt seem to matter to the politicians
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Old 04-27-2018, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Chandler, AZ
3,427 posts, read 3,341,682 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
Exactly. How can teachers negotiate without threatening a walk out? They have no leverage even with the walk out because the legislature walked out when they adjourned for the weekend. They don't give two s#!+s about education and this truly covers it.
I have it on good authority that talks are still taking place between Teachers (NOT the AEA) and legislators today. They just aren't in session.
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