U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Arizona > Phoenix area
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 04-27-2018, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Chandler, AZ
3,425 posts, read 3,332,139 times
Reputation: 4826

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64 View Post
How do you know it’s not the other way around? I.e. Garcia is just riding the movements coattails?

Well...good point. Very well could be. Garcia announced his candidacy this time last year and redfored in AZ fired up what, beginning of this year? I guess it could be the other way around.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-27-2018, 01:30 PM
 
Location: northwest valley, az
3,061 posts, read 1,816,219 times
Reputation: 4180
As powerful as you might think a job action/walkout this time of year might be, there is NOTHING more powerful than the power of Public Opinion. and, having this job action at this time of the school year does NOT solidify the power of Public Opinion, at least in my mind it doesnt..

And, no one said to "Strike" over the summer, obviously, if you arent working during the summer, then having a strike at that time would be a joke..You need to start the discussion then, and, let everyone know, that school will not start on time if these issues arent addressed..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-27-2018, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Chandler, AZ
3,425 posts, read 3,332,139 times
Reputation: 4826
Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitN8V View Post
That doesn’t at all prove your point that this is some political master plan. Again, to accept your theory, you’d have to invalidate the teachers’ concerns and I think anyone can see just how real and impactful they are.
True but it has never been this impactful and vocal before. Maybe it is a matter of too much for too long. Maybe I am just tilting windmills...just seems a little coincidental.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-27-2018, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Chandler, AZ
3,425 posts, read 3,332,139 times
Reputation: 4826
Quote:
Originally Posted by wase4711 View Post
As powerful as you might think a job action/walkout this time of year might be, there is NOTHING more powerful than the power of Public Opinion. and, having this job action at this time of the school year does NOT solidify the power of Public Opinion, at least in my mind it doesnt..

And, no one said to "Strike" over the summer, obviously, if you arent working during the summer, then having a strike at that time would be a joke..You need to start the discussion then, and, let everyone know, that school will not start on time if these issues arent addressed..
You mean like...not signing contracts for the 2018-2019 school year till they fix the funding?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-27-2018, 02:11 PM
 
Location: northwest valley, az
3,061 posts, read 1,816,219 times
Reputation: 4180
thats probably a good place to start..also, making public the salaries of comparable sized school districts around the country and how they are funded might make it easier for people to understand and sympathize with the AZ teachers/School System
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-27-2018, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
34,638 posts, read 18,834,122 times
Reputation: 12409
Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtAZ View Post
I'll just leave this one here for you then:

AEA Endorses David Garcia
I will agree it was bad optics for AEA to announce its endorsement for Garcia the first day of #RedForEd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtAZ View Post
I have it on good authority that talks are still taking place between Teachers (NOT the AEA) and legislators today. They just aren't in session.
Why wont they openly state this and instead send everyone home to the media. This as I posted above is bad optics. However, we can and should vote out the incumbents for being idiots. There is a walk out, some of them dismiss as a strike and political theater and they walk out too? That shows just how out of touch they are and why there was no choice but to walk out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wase4711 View Post
well, this type of "change" in attitude that is needed for folks to understand that education is more important, doesn't occur in a few days at the end of the school year; stating the "blitz" in june, and pushing hard until school starts in August might have been a better way to hammer this issue home..

and, as far as getting politicians to actually work full time on our behalf is a whole other problem that needs to get fixed not just in Arizona, but in most states in the USA..
Wouldn't work, the budget is due by the end of June, not August.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitN8V View Post
That doesn’t at all prove your point that this is some political master plan. Again, to accept your theory, you’d have to invalidate the teachers’ concerns and I think anyone can see just how real and impactful they are.
Exactly, it is a tinfoil hat theory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64 View Post
How do you know it’s not the other way around? I.e. Garcia is just riding the movements coattails?
He did. The AEA would support Garcia regardless because Ducey hasn't done enough and anything he has done was reversed. Garcia knows supporting #RedForEd helps him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CypressHeat View Post
It's fairly obvious to find the people who care about our future's education and those who just simply don't think being intellectual is important. Protesting over the summer? Is there a bigger joke than a teacher who strikes over the summer? It solves nothing, draws no attention to the cause, and is comical at best. You don't protest on your own time, you protest on someone else's, that's Protesting 101 right there. People are commenting that this is a detriment to the students and that these teachers shouldn't be doing this. This is not only amazingly narrow minded, but it's simply wrong. The frustration should be alongside the teachers, not against them. The teachers WANT to be there, the government is making this literally impossible for some because they're not paid enough for the work they do. Yes, yes, yes, teachers know what they're getting into when they sign-up, I know I did. Yet knowing this does not equate to "you get a lower-middle class salary to start, now you're stuck there forever while the price of everything goes up." These teachers aren't fighting against starting salaries (well, some are now) they're upset they aren't given raises like most in the private sector get. No raises in some cases in 20 years?! Government has the money, it's there, it's always there, most of time however they'd rather spend it on things that matter less than the future of our children's education.
Exactly. This was a great post and the problem teacher and support staff face. Wages froze for years and now with the minimum wage law, as of 2020 me as a paraprofessional might have to seek other work because I'll make minimum wage at $12.00 and in fact make a whole lot less due to the pension. Right now I get $11.39 an hour. $0.89 before taxes and pension over minimum wage. I can't be guaranteed a raise by the governor, yet his yes men can get 20%? And when teachers ask for that and funding it is political theater and he will not negotiate with teachers? This is why a walk out was needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtAZ View Post
Well...good point. Very well could be. Garcia announced his candidacy this time last year and redfored in AZ fired up what, beginning of this year? I guess it could be the other way around.
Garcia's candidacy didn't cause a firestorm until after the AEA supported him and his bus was at the march to the capital yesterday.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wase4711 View Post
As powerful as you might think a job action/walkout this time of year might be, there is NOTHING more powerful than the power of Public Opinion. and, having this job action at this time of the school year does NOT solidify the power of Public Opinion, at least in my mind it doesnt..

And, no one said to "Strike" over the summer, obviously, if you arent working during the summer, then having a strike at that time would be a joke..You need to start the discussion then, and, let everyone know, that school will not start on time if these issues arent addressed..
You must be obtuse because this was posted earlier. You didn't say strike but rather "negotiate". In summer, there is no power to "negotiate" since the budget need to be done at June. Striking two months later wont do crap. Plus #RedForEd had to strike while the iron was hot and it still was politically favored and the Ducey "deal" was out there. People were for it, until what was in there came out. No real funding for school upgrades and support staff and only some teachers get raises through voodoo economics. What if Trump's trade wars cause another recession, that will slow businesses? What if home sales slow for whatever reason, that will slow business too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtAZ View Post
True but it has never been this impactful and vocal before. Maybe it is a matter of too much for too long. Maybe I am just tilting windmills...just seems a little coincidental.
As I stated before that was merely bad optics to have the AEA support David Garcia on the first day of Wear #RedForEd. But honestly, just blame West Virginia. There is no political sabotage other than the governor and legislature doing it to themselves. West Virginia started the landslide, not some political ideology.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtAZ View Post
You mean like...not signing contracts for the 2018-2019 school year till they fix the funding?
This would work if contracts need to be signed NOW due to what I said about the state budget. The state budget needs to be set in June. If the distracts had that much trouble getting teachers, it may work. It is too much of a gamble though for the teachers.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-27-2018, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Chandler, AZ
3,425 posts, read 3,332,139 times
Reputation: 4826
Ah...now I see...AZCentral has put out an OpEd summarily decry-ing collusion between the AEA and David Garcia so we shouldn't question the motives or any back room dealings because it is crazy talk. Got it. Nothing to see here...move along...keep your heads down and embrace the like speak.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-27-2018, 02:38 PM
 
Location: northwest valley, az
3,061 posts, read 1,816,219 times
Reputation: 4180
budgets can get modified at any time; trust me, I know this, as Illinois went over 2 years without ANY budget..
June may be the "deadline". but nothing is ever set in stone when it comes to state funding of anything
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-27-2018, 03:01 PM
 
Location: East Central Phoenix
6,710 posts, read 9,809,930 times
Reputation: 7894
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
I'm listening to Jan Brewer, ex-gov, who is not one of my favorites. I have to hand it to her though. She is all but calling the governor a bumbling fool, and the state legislature a bunch of bums who won't do their jobs and fix what we all know is broken. Good for her!
Brewer is the one you should mostly blame because education funding was reduced on her watch, and that was largely because her predecessor (Napolitano) allowed the budget to become overextended with all day Kindergarten and other unnecessary costly measures. I think it's pretty damn hypocritical of Brewer to publicly criticize Ducey and the Legislature. Ducey at least is reasonable and offered to raise the teachers' salaries ... but then the teachers still walked out, and the Legislature adjourned for the weekend. This has put him in a bad situation which is not his fault.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG CATS View Post
Teachers striking during normal school hours is the wrong thing to do. At my office alone, we are missing 4 people who have to stay home with their kids because they cant find babysitters, which is hurting our business. We have people working mad OT to try and make ends meet here because of this situation. And now our customers are suffering because of this, too. Its ridiculous. These teachers can strike during summer break, in which they have months of downtime to do so. They think theyre accomplishing something, but what they're really doing is upsetting parents, workers, etc. These teachers are like the pro-Hillary and BLM losers who blocked highways. They think theyre helping their cause, but they're really hurting themselves.
Agree 100%! My company is at least offering reimbursements for daycare, which I'm sure many smaller businesses aren't doing (mainly because of the cost). I sympathize with the teachers because of how low their wages are, but they are going about this the wrong way. It's one thing to strike & protest, but when it negatively affects millions of people around the state, it becomes a whole different story!
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-27-2018, 03:16 PM
 
2,304 posts, read 4,716,061 times
Reputation: 4203
Quote:
Originally Posted by kurtaz View Post
ah...now i see...azcentral has put out an oped summarily decry-ing collusion between the aea and david garcia so we shouldn't question the motives or any back room dealings because it is crazy talk. Got it. Nothing to see here...move along...keep your heads down and embrace the like speak.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Arizona > Phoenix area
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top