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Old 04-28-2018, 10:21 AM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,973 posts, read 24,186,283 times
Reputation: 15587

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TulsaGirl2 View Post
Here's what happens when taxes are raised to pay for never ending School Union demands
and taxes are so high, all the business's left and Buffalo already lost more then half it's population


Look at Buffalo NY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mLnD-GIFq0
So I guess you either totally ignored (because it doesn't fit your narrative) or can't read the point that THERE IS NO TEACHERS UNION IN AZ.

The school staff in AZ are on their own in each district hence the pay disparity across the state. Understand now?
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Old 04-28-2018, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Outside US
2,349 posts, read 1,068,066 times
Reputation: 3327
Quote:
Originally Posted by InchingWest View Post
I don't know why teachers complain. No one else in the country gets 17 weeks of vacation and still gets to have top-notch benefits.
I've never taught in the US.

I taught overseas in the past.

I do not teach now.

I take 3+ months off per year unpaid.


As for teachers getting 17 weeks off per year (if it's true) that is decent.

Americans in general should take at least 6-7+ weeks off per year - unpaid - to do what they want if they choose to do so.


As for teachers - to say it again - These walkouts are b/c the conditions in AZ are this bad. Otherwise, walk outs would not be happening. It's not just "give me this and that." These conditions have been building up for years.

AZ is now importing Philippinos to teachers. Nothing wrong with that. But AZ is doing so b/c they can pay them little.

It's a race to the bottom for pay.


The people that talk about "teachers' getting time off" and of "unions" have never taught.


They had never taught a day in their life.
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Old 04-28-2018, 12:55 PM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,973 posts, read 24,186,283 times
Reputation: 15587
Quote:
Originally Posted by TulsaGirl2 View Post
Misguided ? 99% of Metro Phoenix is New, Queen Creek, Chandler, Gilbert, San Tan Valley, Surprise, Goodyear etc.. alone built over 100 new schools in the last 10 years, and many new schools are under construction right now, Queen Creeks even building a 2nd High School right now , A couple of years ago, the AZ teachers were crying they need more money and most school budget overrides were approved by voters but then, people got really pissed when their taxes went up,


Speaking about Drinking Kool-Aid !! Anytime taxes are raised, it destroys the economy !! NYS has the highest paid teachers in the country and also has the highest taxes in the country because the teachers & all union public sector workers get yearly raises and property taxes are raised every single year to pay for them
This isn't Buffalo or NYS so please leave that East Coast assumption,comparison and ideas right back where they came from.
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Old 04-28-2018, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
34,799 posts, read 18,935,284 times
Reputation: 12460
Quote:
Originally Posted by TulsaGirl2 View Post
Misguided ? 99% of Metro Phoenix is New, Queen Creek, Chandler, Gilbert, San Tan Valley, Surprise, Goodyear etc.. alone built over 100 new schools in the last 10 years, and many new schools are under construction right now, Queen Creeks even building a 2nd High School right now , A couple of years ago, the AZ teachers were crying they need more money and most school budget overrides were approved by voters but then, people got really pissed when their taxes went up,
That "over 100 new schools in the last 10 years" is because some cities like Surprise in particular, boomed in this millennia and ballooned in population from about 2004 and on (with a pause in 2008-2010) and continues to do so. Seriously check all the housing going up in Surprise and then ask me why we have so many new schools. It is just like Long Island in the 1940's and 1950's... Right now, Surprise has three high schools and like ten+ public elementary schools and that is without includig the several charter sschools. Makes your Queen Creek feel small with only one and a second being built right? That said, even if the elementary schools look new, they still have double wide "portable classrooms". I know because the elementary school I work has one. Somehow they are air conditioned but if they weren't, man would that suck for the 600 students at the school.

As for raising taxes, who exactly complains about taxes being raised directly for education? Maybe, just maybe, if you hated taxes in the first place or do not have children. I just don't get why people don't like funding schools and this was long before I became an educator so no Kool-aid here.

Quote:
Speaking about Drinking Kool-Aid !! Anytime taxes are raised, it destroys the economy !! NYS has the highest paid teachers in the country and also has the highest taxes in the country because the teachers & all union public sector workers get yearly raises and property taxes are raised every single year to pay for them
So keeping taxes low and seeing teachers move off to California, Nevada, Utah, Colorado and New Mexico is right? So it is right to have 5,000 full time teaching positions sit vacant leaving their students to sit in with long-term subs who are paid virtually dirt with no beneies or put into larger classes and not even have a desk or textbook to use for assignments? All because you fear New York policy. I grew up in New York, Long Island to be precise and while taxes were high, we got great teachers and lots of up to date material. In AZ it is a struggle to do everything we can do for our students because legislatures have cut and cut and cut and whine, moan and ***** when educators complain about it. Pretty much since I moved out here in 2007, this has been a problem and it needs to end.
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Old 04-28-2018, 01:50 PM
 
Location: East Central Phoenix
6,741 posts, read 9,846,008 times
Reputation: 7909
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
As for raising taxes, who exactly complains about taxes being raised directly for education? Maybe, just maybe, if you hated taxes in the first place or do not have children. I just don't get why people don't like funding schools and this was long before I became an educator so no Kool-aid here.
Lots of people complain about raising taxes for education: most notably, retirees on fixed incomes, and those of us with no children who are forced to keep supporting everybody else's breeding habits. Having kids is like anything else: if you can afford it, fine, pay for it yourself. If you can't afford it, then you have no business expecting everybody else to fund your lifestyle. Too many people treat procreation like it's a Constitutional right, or some kind of automatic requirement that the government has to subsidize.

Meanwhile, the teachers have walked out and many schools have closed down while our tax dollars are still paying away. You might notice that private schools are still open for business, and you don't hear many teachers in the private sector complaining or protesting about their salaries or how outdated the materials are. More parents could afford private school if they'd make some sacrifices, such as cutting out all their frivolous spending, putting down their phones once in a while, and taking a serious interest in the quality of their kids' education. My parents put us through private school while struggling financially because they actually CARED!
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Old 04-28-2018, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
34,799 posts, read 18,935,284 times
Reputation: 12460
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Native View Post
Lots of people complain about raising taxes for education: most notably, retirees on fixed incomes, and those of us with no children who are forced to keep supporting everybody else's breeding habits. Having kids is like anything else: if you can afford it, fine, pay for it yourself. If you can't afford it, then you have no business expecting everybody else to fund your lifestyle. Too many people treat procreation like it's a Constitutional right, or some kind of automatic requirement that the government has to subsidize.
So isn't this discrimination for taxing people with kids more for school taxes because retirees have a fixed income. You don't realize they aren't the only but they are the loudest complaining and many used the system for themselves and then their kids. They got their's, screw everyone else. IMHO, that is pretty damn selfish.

Quote:
Meanwhile, the teachers have walked out and many schools have closed down while our tax dollars are still paying away. You might notice that private schools are still open for business, and you don't hear many teachers in the private sector complaining or protesting about their salaries or how outdated the materials are. More parents could afford private school if they'd make some sacrifices, such as cutting out all their frivolous spending, putting down their phones once in a while, and taking a serious interest in the quality of their kids' education. My parents put us through private school while struggling financially because they actually CARED!
It would be easier if the voucher program Ducey loves to promote didn't go to those that already go to private schools because they afford it, not those who want to scrape money together for it. We have to fix that problem and give to those that truly deserve it and wouldn't be able to go otherwise or just remove the state tax payer wasted money going for rich welfare.
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Old 04-28-2018, 02:18 PM
 
Location: East Central Phoenix
6,741 posts, read 9,846,008 times
Reputation: 7909
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
So isn't this discrimination for taxing people with kids more for school taxes because retirees have a fixed income. You don't realize they aren't the only but they are the loudest complaining and many used the system for themselves and then their kids. They got their's, screw everyone else. IMHO, that is pretty damn selfish.
You have to understand that many retirees who live strictly on Social Security (or perhaps small pensions or investment income) are often more limited on what they can afford. This is why any increase in taxes will hurt them financially. Besides, many of them worked hard, contributed to society, paid their taxes, raised families, and even served their country ... that's hardly selfish! A lot of them also desire to live among their own age group and don't want to have to contend with obnoxious kids. This is why age restricted communities are so popular. They deserve a break!


Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
It would be easier if the voucher program Ducey loves to promote didn't go to those that already go to private schools because they afford it, not those who want to scrape money together for it. We have to fix that problem and give to those that truly deserve it and wouldn't be able to go otherwise or just remove the state tax payer wasted money going for rich welfare.
For the record, I'm against vouchers because all they amount to is government money diverted to private schools. Politicians on both sides of the aisle have it wrong on this whole education funding issue. In the end, the best way to go is privatization, and keep the government out of it! I have cited time and time again how private schools are far superior to practically anything in the private sector. For one thing, children who attend private school are more likely to be college graduates and have successful careers. If we're going to keep the education system public, then I suggest those with kids in school pay the brunt of the taxes, and leave everybody else alone. Basically, you pay for what you use. That would be the fair thing to do.
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Old 04-28-2018, 02:32 PM
 
Location: northwest valley, az
3,080 posts, read 1,838,217 times
Reputation: 4207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Native View Post
You have to understand that many retirees who live strictly on Social Security (or perhaps small pensions or investment income) are often more limited on what they can afford. This is why any increase in taxes will hurt them financially. Besides, many of them worked hard, contributed to society, paid their taxes, raised families, and even served their country ... that's hardly selfish! A lot of them also desire to live among their own age group and don't want to have to contend with obnoxious kids. This is why age restricted communities are so popular. They deserve a break!

Couldnt agree with you more; I am part of that group, and I paid school taxes for almost 20 years until I had my first child; I never complained about it, and still don't today, but, I also paid unemployment taxes and SS for 50 years, and never once used it; why punish ME? I just hope the lousy politicians dont BK social security b4 I can get some of my money out of it



For the record, I'm against vouchers because all they amount to is government money diverted to private schools. Politicians on both sides of the aisle have it wrong on this whole education funding issue. In the end, the best way to go is privatization, and keep the government out of it! I have cited time and time again how private schools are far superior to practically anything in the private sector. For one thing, children who attend private school are more likely to be college graduates and have successful careers. If we're going to keep the education system public, then I suggest those with kids in school pay the brunt of the taxes, and leave everybody else alone. Basically, you pay for what you use. That would be the fair thing to do.
Pay for what you use? Boy, THAT would be a unique concept in this "give it to me because I deserve it "society we are now forced into..
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Old 04-28-2018, 07:07 PM
 
33 posts, read 12,355 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
This isn't Buffalo or NYS so please leave that East Coast assumption,comparison and ideas right back where they came from.
One of founders of Red For Ed (aka a 3 Ring Chinese Circus) is a former NYS State teacher and that's were the demands came from !!!!!!!! their was article in AZ Rep. news paper
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Old 04-28-2018, 07:13 PM
 
33 posts, read 12,355 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by TulsaGirl2 View Post
One of founders of Red For Ed (aka a 3 Ring Chinese Circus) is a former NYS State teacher and that's were the demands came from !!!!!!!! their was article in AZ Rep. news paper

Niagara Falls NY another ghost town looks just like Buffalo, but the teachers & public sector unionized workers are the highest paid in country and still get yearly raises every single year and the tax base keeps shrinking so property taxes keep going up every year $300, $400 or $500 or more year and already the highest in the country too



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yEnqjalPeE
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