Roosevelt District Downtown Phoenix (Tempe: loans, relocation, gated)

[AndreaDC2PHX]

Hi all,

I've been reading these threads for a couple of days and would love your input. I'm currently a DC resident but I'm planning to move to Phoenix in August to start a PhD program at ASU. I took a trip to Phoenix in February and discovered the Roosevelt district, which seems like a mini-version of something comparable to an East Coast city without the pretentious unfriendly people. My question is where does that area go from developing to unsafe? I live in a city now so I'm ok with all that comes with a downtown area, the occasional crime, homeless, panhandling...but not ok with somewhere that's completely run-down and un-safe. I'd also really enjoy being able to walk to campus. Anyone have any thoughts?

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by AndreaDC2PHX

Hi all,

I've been reading these threads for a couple of days and would love your input. I'm currently a DC resident but I'm planning to move to Phoenix in August to start a PhD program at ASU. I took a trip to Phoenix in February and discovered the Roosevelt district, which seems like a mini-version of something comparable to an East Coast city without the pretentious unfriendly people. My question is where does that area go from developing to unsafe? I live in a city now so I'm ok with all that comes with a downtown area, the occasional crime, homeless, panhandling...but not ok with somewhere that's completely run-down and un-safe. I'd also really enjoy being able to walk to campus. Anyone have any thoughts?

Is the program at the ASU downtown campus? You would be able to walk to campus, at least during the day (at night that's up to whether or not you'd feel safe). If it's in Tempe, once the light rail is up (the very end of this year, I think) you'd be able to walk to the light rail station easily. Each person you talk to on this forum who knows about that area will have their own opinion, but in my opinion the whole "Roosevelt Row" artists' area on Roosevelt between Central and 7th st, and the general area just north of downtown, is a place that has future potential to turn into a cool urban neighborhood, but as of right now, it has NOT made it. Right now it's still mostly vacant lots and it feels a little freaky walking around there, especially at night. It's not so much the homeless people that scares me; it's the sheer vacant-ness, emptiness of the neighborhood; the number of people walking around are far and few between. There are a smattering of hole-in-the-wall businesses here and there, but as of right now, it doesn't really add up to anything. AFAIK, there really isn't any housing available right ON Roosevelt street right next to the galleries; most of the brownstones, etc, are several blocks south on McKinley, etc. If you are an urban pioneer, go for it; if you are expecting "east coast" style-living now-- you'll be disappointed.

Then there's a 2 or three block area along Roosevelt and Portland St between 1st ave and 3rd ave, with a bunch of newly constructed new urbanist-style apartments in condos (maybe this is what you were talking about?). If you absolutely wanted to live right by downtown Phoenix, that's the area I'd suggest. Just keep in mind, there is almost no "urban" action going on in Roosevelt Historic District neighorbood-- there's one coffee shop that closes extremely early, one Italian deli that does business during lunch hours; and that's pretty much it. Social interaction between people living there seems to be limited to people walking their dogs on the mini piece of grass in the median of Portland st.

[Plin]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

Is the program at the ASU downtown campus? You would be able to walk to campus, at least during the day (at night that's up to whether or not you'd feel safe). If it's in Tempe, once the light rail is up (the very end of this year, I think) you'd be able to walk to the light rail station easily. Each person you talk to on this forum who knows about that area will have their own opinion, but in my opinion the whole "Roosevelt Row" artists' area on Roosevelt between Central and 7th st, and the general area just north of downtown, is a place that has future potential to turn into a cool urban neighborhood, but as of right now, it has NOT made it. Right now it's still mostly vacant lots and it feels a little freaky walking around there, especially at night. It's not so much the homeless people that scares me; it's the sheer vacant-ness, emptiness of the neighborhood; the number of people walking around are far and few between. There are a smattering of hole-in-the-wall businesses here and there, but as of right now, it doesn't really add up to anything. AFAIK, there really isn't any housing available right ON Roosevelt street right next to the galleries; most of the brownstones, etc, are several blocks south on McKinley, etc. If you are an urban pioneer, go for it; if you are expecting "east coast" style-living now-- you'll be disappointed.

I have to agree with VegasPilgrim, based on my recent recon trip. Roosevelt was one of the areas on my list as prime living spots... until I went there. While I agree that it is likely to develop into an exciting urban neighborhood in the near future, right now it really is freakishly deserted. Many streets have an abundance of signs offering payday loans and bail bonds, never a good sign. I live in a "gentrifying" area of Philadelphia, so I'm no stranger to the slightly-shabby and even somewhat risky sides of urban living, but I immediately realized that as a single woman I wouldn't feel comfortable living in the Roosevelt area right now.

Obviously there's a chicken-and-egg issue, since if no one moves there or opens establishments that attract patrons and thus pedestrians, the area will never take off. But as much of an urbanite as I am, I decided I can't be on the front lines of that process.

[silverbear]

Originally Posted by AndreaDC2PHX

Hi all,

I've been reading these threads for a couple of days and would love your input. I'm currently a DC resident but I'm planning to move to Phoenix in August to start a PhD program at ASU. I took a trip to Phoenix in February and discovered the Roosevelt district, which seems like a mini-version of something comparable to an East Coast city without the pretentious unfriendly people. My question is where does that area go from developing to unsafe? I live in a city now so I'm ok with all that comes with a downtown area, the occasional crime, homeless, panhandling...but not ok with somewhere that's completely run-down and un-safe. I'd also really enjoy being able to walk to campus. Anyone have any thoughts?

I see the glass as half full rather than half empty. The Roosevelt and Evans-Churchill areas should not be thought of just in terms of Roosevelt and Portland streets, but also in terms of the streets immediately to the south: 4th St., 3rd St., Garfield, McKinley, and Pierce. Along those streets, you have the following right now: Fate, a popular Asian restaurant with late hours; The Roosevelt, a nice pub with a house beer from local favorite Four Peaks; The Downtown Phoenix Public Market, a small farmer's market that operates twice a week; and the Lost Leaf, an artsy bar with beers and wines from all over the world. In the coming soon department, you have Moria, a Japanese restaurant scheduled to open on McKinley this summer, and Breadfruit, a Jamaican restaurant on Pierce. Add these business openings to the ASU DT campus construction, and things are heating up pretty quickly at the north end of Downtown. As stated above, there are still a lot of vacant lots. The next frontier is new construction to fill in those gaps.

As for safety, I would recommend at this point staying between the 7s (7th St and 7th Ave). Most of the gentrification is concentrated in that area. Wander west of 7th Ave or east of 7th St and while there are early signs of gentification, it might be edgier than you'd like. I'm not aware of any payday loan or bail bonds shops along or near Roosevelt between the 7s, by the way, and I'm down there several times a month. There are plenty of those elsewhere in Central Phoenix, but they're not abundant in the Roosevelt and Evans-Churchill areas. In fact, most of the sleazier businesses, such as liquor stores that sold big bottles of malt liquor, have been transformed into galleries. The bigger problem is vacant lots with no type of business at all.

You mention a Ph.D. program at ASU. If your program is at the Downtown Campus and you'd like to be an urban pioneer, then I think the area would be okay for you. If your program is at the main campus in Tempe, then I think you'd be happier living there and coming into DT Phoenix as needed for events.

[HX_Guy]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

Is the program at the ASU downtown campus? You would be able to walk to campus, at least during the day (at night that's up to whether or not you'd feel safe). If it's in Tempe, once the light rail is up (the very end of this year, I think) you'd be able to walk to the light rail station easily. Each person you talk to on this forum who knows about that area will have their own opinion, but in my opinion the whole "Roosevelt Row" artists' area on Roosevelt between Central and 7th st, and the general area just north of downtown, is a place that has future potential to turn into a cool urban neighborhood, but as of right now, it has NOT made it. Right now it's still mostly vacant lots and it feels a little freaky walking around there, especially at night. It's not so much the homeless people that scares me; it's the sheer vacant-ness, emptiness of the neighborhood; the number of people walking around are far and few between. There are a smattering of hole-in-the-wall businesses here and there, but as of right now, it doesn't really add up to anything. AFAIK, there really isn't any housing available right ON Roosevelt street right next to the galleries; most of the brownstones, etc, are several blocks south on McKinley, etc. If you are an urban pioneer, go for it; if you are expecting "east coast" style-living now-- you'll be disappointed.

Actually, the area you are talking about is not even in Roosevelt. The Roosevelt Historic District stops at Central going east and in large at Roosevelt St going south, although there are some stretches that go further south. The area where First Fridays are actually held known as Roosevelt Row isn't even in Roosevelt itself...go figure right?

Here is a map of the Roosevelt District:


I agree with you, that the area southeast of Roosevelt (south of Roosevelt St to Fillmore and east to 7th St) has a lot of developing to do, there are many empty lots around and it can feel unsafe...but I don't think it really is that unsafe. From what I've read, the downtown core is very low in crime...it's as soon as you get east of 7th St or west of 7th Ave that it spikes up.

It really depends on the person's budget too...if I had the money, I would love to get a historic house in the Roosevelt or Willow Districts, but those houses cost $400,000+ for 1200 sq ft or so. They are very charming with palm tree lined streets but also not very attainable.

I would definitely still recommend living in the downtown area, especially if your PhD program is at the downtown campus. As Silverbear mentioned, there are many great places already established plus many more coming soon.

[AndreaDC2PHX]

Yep I will be at the downtown campus. The area I visited while I was there was around the Roosevelt and the Lost Leaf. Thankfully, I met some people while I was visiting who pointed out some of what was there or I would have thought it was just some houses and a coffee shop. I did notice the vacant lots closer to campus but once I got around Garfield and McKinley it didn't seem too vacant. I didn't really head over to the Avenue side so I didn't know if that was similar to the area I was in. I did see through internet searches that there were a couple of newer apartment buildings on Portland Street but I'd much rather try and find a cottage or guesthouse in the area. I know a few students who are currently in my program and they live in Tempe and take the bus or campus shuttle to downtown so that's always a back-up but I think I'd rather be farther away from the undergrads and the college scene if I can.

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by AndreaDC2PHX

Yep I will be at the downtown campus. The area I visited while I was there was around the Roosevelt and the Lost Leaf. Thankfully, I met some people while I was visiting who pointed out some of what was there or I would have thought it was just some houses and a coffee shop. I did notice the vacant lots closer to campus but once I got around Garfield and McKinley it didn't seem too vacant. I didn't really head over to the Avenue side so I didn't know if that was similar to the area I was in. I did see through internet searches that there were a couple of newer apartment buildings on Portland Street but I'd much rather try and find a cottage or guesthouse in the area. I know a few students who are currently in my program and they live in Tempe and take the bus or campus shuttle to downtown so that's always a back-up but I think I'd rather be farther away from the undergrads and the college scene if I can.

Just keep in mind, the Tempe campus still is the "Main" campus (even though Michael Crow doesn't want to call it that anymore) and the vast majority of ASU graduate students attend the Tempe campus too-- not just undergrads. It's mainly nursing, social work, and (soon to be) journalism that's at downtown PHX. Chances are you will be going to Tempe a LOT even if you don't live there. Good luck with your program and your relocation to Phoenix!

[AndreaDC2PHX]

Good to know about the low crime rates. I live in Adams Morgan in DC there's a check cashing place, a few homeless people, and a strip club on the corner, but I've lived there 2 years and never had a problem. I'm actually more concerned when I go over to 18th street and it's filled with extremely drunk large groups of men than when I'm on my side street that's occasionally deserted.

[blueeyz911]

I lived in the Roosevelt district for 3.5 years. We lived just South of 5th Avenue and McDowell on Culver Street. We really felt safe there and liked the area excerpt for the fact that it was so far removed from shopping and restaurants. The area got shady when you ventured out to 7th Avenue and McDowell and then across the bridge to I-10 just south of the park which is located around 5th Avenue and Culver. There are lots of homeless people that frequent the area and go through the garbage cans in the alleys but they never bothered us.

[jlzpo1]

Originally Posted by blueeyz911

I lived in the Roosevelt district for 3.5 years. We lived just South of 5th Avenue and McDowell on Culver Street. We really felt safe there and liked the area excerpt for the fact that it was so far removed from shopping and restaurants. The area got shady when you ventured out to 7th Avenue and McDowell and then across the bridge to I-10 just south of the park which is located around 5th Avenue and Culver. There are lots of homeless people that frequent the area and go through the garbage cans in the alleys but they never bothered us.

I'm coming to PHX in May to look for an apt for the start of July, and was considering the Roosevelt Square/ downtown PHX area. Living in suburban Boston, I've missed living in an area with little bit more of an urban neighborhood. I've lived in Philly as well, so I'm used to being aware of my surroundings because it was easy to walk right into an unsavory neighborhood without even knowing it (I'm talking about crack addicts and Bosnia-type areas of Philly near center-city).

Are most places to rent in PHX gated communities? Is the Roosevelt area mainly gated communities?