Phoenix Despicable Air (Scottsdale, Tempe: home, neighborhood, allergy)

[Prickly Pear]

Phoenix is in a valley which makes it prone to inversions that can make the air quality terrible (or help make it worse). This is something Los Angeles and even moreso than us, Salt Lake City, deal with as well.

We can't change the geography of where our city is located, but we can encourage people to drive less and stop building freeways that will produce a ton of emissions. We can focus on denser development and infill instead of exurban master planned communities which will not only reduce the amount of heat our city will have overtime, but reduce the amount of dust in the air (less dust to kick up if you are using less land, no?). You can ask to increase funding for the air quality department and the department of environmental quality, who can hold the private sector more accountable for kicking up dust and other emissions into our atmosphere and achieve better compliance with the massive dust control regulations we already have on the books. There are many other things you can do as well.

The air quality is fairly bad here, and it's not going to get better unless we actively change people's behaviors towards their environment. Behaviors can be influenced by a multitude of things. The truth is we are the ones causing the terrible air quality. Humans. Nothing else is doing this. So what can we do to get ALL people who live here, rich or poor, not just "oh maybe others will do it and that will solve the issue, I can keep my same lifestyle" attitudes that many have towards most things because they can't stand change, to adapt to make this place a better place to breathe in?

And OP or anyone else who may agree, do you drive a car? Do you regularly order food delivery? Do you live far from your work? Do you use a lot of electricity? Do you go through a lot of waste? If you answer yes to any one of those, then you are an active part of the problem. Be accountable to yourself and change your own behavior and try to get others to do the same, or keep breathing terrible air that allows Phoenix to have one of the highest rates of childhood asthma in the nation.

[DougStark]

Unlike some others, I'm not going to kick you in the pants as you leave. I get it.

A lot of us are disappointed with our air quality. It seems like we have more and more ozone and PM "alerts" every summer. But, I don't blame cars as much as Prickly Pear does. New cars are almost at zero-emission levels now!!!

There are SO many processes and industries around a metro of this size that can contribute to the ozone/PM problem here. I don't know if our local air regulators are equipped for the task of regulating and enforcing all of them!! All I know is, Federal EPA can't look the other way and ignore our air sampling data and trends: they will take enforcement action to force new clean-up measures, whether by their decision or by a lawsuit by AZ Ctr for Law in the Public Interest.

All I can say is, at least it's not as bad as the Inland Empire or Fresno--both off the charts bad air cities.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by DougStark

A lot of us are disappointed with our air quality. It seems like we have more and more ozone and PM "alerts" every summer. But, I don't blame cars as much as Prickly Pear does. New cars are almost at zero-emission levels now!!!

Very true about newer cars, but unfortunately, many people still drive old clunkers which emit plenty of pollutants. Emissions testing is a joke. I really can't understand why there are so many older vehicles sputtering around. Most anybody with average to good credit can finance a new one. All that money people spend on repairs can be put toward payments on a new car, which are practically maintenance free. For me, it's better to trade off and buy new every 4 years or so to avoid all those hassles, and to know that I'm doing my part in not being a polluter.

[mzbk2l]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Very true about newer cars, but unfortunately, many people still drive old clunkers which emit plenty of pollutants. Emissions testing is a joke. I really can't understand why there are so many older vehicles sputtering around. Most anybody with average to good credit can finance a new one. All that money people spend on repairs can be put toward payments on a new car, which are practically maintenance free. For me, it's better to trade off and buy new every 4 years or so to avoid all those hassles, and to know that I'm doing my part in not being a polluter.

Had to laugh at that one... If you trade every four years, I've had one of my classic cars through 5 of yours (although that one only sees a few thousand miles per year), and my daily driver through 3 of yours. The dd seems to average $3-400/yr in repairs now that it's older.



I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the mining, shipping, and manufacturing operations involved in producing the 5 new cars you've been through while I've owned mine match or outweigh the difference in tailpipe emissions.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by mzbk2l

Had to laugh at that one... If you trade every four years, I've had one of my classic cars through 5 of yours (although that one only sees a few thousand miles per year), and my daily driver through 3 of yours. The dd seems to average $3-400/yr in repairs now that it's older.



I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the mining, shipping, and manufacturing operations involved in producing the 5 new cars you've been through while I've owned mine match or outweigh the difference in tailpipe emissions.

I do what I think is best for me personally, and I need a reliable car 100% of the time due to my busy schedule. As long as I have the means to trade every few years, I will do so. I'd rather be making payments on a vehicle that is new, clean, and pretty much maintenance free than paying on consistent repairs. Regarding the mining, shipping, and manufacturing that it takes to produce new vehicles: I see that as doing my part in keeping job security. My concern about pollution is more on a local level.

[BIG CATS]

There is another thread devoted entirely to this subject at hand. Why start a new one? And yes, the air here is gross. Too many people move here looking to escape allergies and end up getting worse. And it will only get worse as time goes on, sadly.

[newtoaz20172]

For reference, on bad days here, it is worse than Beijing and L.A. Take a moment and think about that.

I actually was checking global air quality reports when Phoenix mentioned the air quality was terrible.

[observer53]

Originally Posted by desertbeat

I am a native Phoenician and I have been dealing with Phoenix air my whole life and am about to finally escape and move elsewhere. It is definitely not just you. In the past couple of years with the tremendous population wave coming here, the disgusting air (which has always been moderately disgusting) has become insanely filthy. In Phoenix we live in a dry bowl where everything pumped or picked up gets trapped. So for us allergy sufferers we not only have to contend with constant planting of everything possible, but we have to take in the poisonous car and factory emissions and dust. There are no allergy shots for pollution or dust. So not only do allergy sufferers like myself suffer year round, but the average person who doesn't have them will experience problems too. Pollution is poison and people weren't meant to breathe it. I am headed out as soon as I have enogh money. Tired of wearing a mask and jacking myself up with Sudafed. We found a place where the air is clean and rent is cheap-- that is the only answer.

I've lived here longer than you, I'll bet. No mask, no drugs. Glad you found a place you think will be better for you, hope it works out. No place is for everyone. Good luck, bye now.

[new2colo]

Phoenix does have terrible pollution. However, if anything, the air was filthier back in the day before emissions standards.

Below is a tourism video of the Valley of the Sun from the 1960s. If you advance the clip to 0:25 you will see just how filthy the air was back then too. The population of the Phoenix area was less than 20 percent of what it is today.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKI76RIPR6o&t=631s

Good luck with wherever you are headed.

[Ponderosa]

When I first came in the 70s we were on a house hunting trip after getting a job offer in Phoenix. I lived in Tucson at the time and was disappointed that there were no mountains in and around Phoenix. When we came back for a second time, we were shocked. There were not only mountains but they were right in town in some cases. The difference: the first time the air was so bad you could not make out Camelback from the freeway! The second time - a little wind. Yeah, back in the day was worse than now especially for CO.

As for now, all the complaining on this board actually has little evidence behind it. The air quality monitoring stations around the valley rarely get into an unhealthy range on any pollutant and when they do it is always just one or two stations - the ones near downtown for PM and out in the east valley for ozone. The rest of the metro is usually "green" every day except Christmas and New Years when the fireplace are churning away or when a dust storm without rain kicks up large particulates. If you live in a far flung burb, the air quality is pretty decent.