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Luke AFB is a vital source of the U.S. military, and it's essential to the west Valley's economy. People who make the CHOICE to live within close proximity of the base have no business complaining about the jet noise. Luke was in existence long before the sprawling development was built around it, so those whose sensitive little ears are bothered by the noise should simply shut up and move elsewhere!
Thanks for all the responses. We are flying to Phoenix in 2 days. We will be spending 5 days there to scout out the area (also heading down to Tucson to check it out as well) before flying home. All this information is very useful for our visit.
It's a big area. Homes run from dumps in highly impoverished, high crime areas to million dollar and more customs in safe, fancy subdivisions. Generally Tolleson is worst, Avondale is better Goodyear is even better to much better and Litchfield Park is uniformly good. Buckeye is a world to itself where you can find all of the above plus mini-farms and acreage - Goodyear also has some of that.
Commute time to central Phoenix depends again. If you live near the freeway in Goodyear which is a nice area, then it can be as little as 20 minutes downtown non-rush hour or 45 mins to an hour during the peak. Add 20 minutes for Buckeye and subtract some for Avondale. I10 is a parking lot during rush hour. It may improve in a few months when a new freeway opens, but it still sees the most traffic in the metro. If you live in the nether regions of Estrella, a fancy subdivision in Goodyear, it can take 20 mins just to get to the freeway (new freeway will be going near there in 3-4 years too).
As you know, Buckeye is a big town. In Verrado from the very top of hill known as Victory (55+), it takes 14 minutes to drive down and hit the Estella Goodyear exit. I have been comparing neighborhoods (looking at all kinds of options including active adult 55+) including Pebble Creek and Victory. Shave off 3-4 minutes if you live in the lower section of Verrado closer to the highway.
Luke AFB noise extends all the way to I-17 & Happy Valley? Wow. A few years ago we visited the Wildlife World Zoo, right under the 'pattern' for the planes doing touch & go's at Luke. I feel bad for those animals.(for that and other reasons)
We went to the Wildlife World Zoo ONCE. Those animals are treated like crap. When we went a few years ago, they built a new bear exhibit. It was "enjoying" life on a partially completed cage with brown dirt underneath. Bears live in forests and mountains. Not on brown dirt and 110 degree days.
Listen, I don't buy free range chickens and I haven't hugged a tree in my life. But that place is disgusting for the animals.
While I've only taken the commuter bus a few times, the schedules posted indicate the ride from Goodyear to 17th Ave/Jefferson range from 50-60 minutes, which was my experience. While I have no idea what the ride would look like from Avondale Blvd., one would guess that based on a shorter distance, it should not take longer. I certainly could be wrong, as I've only taken the Goodyear express bus to downtown.
It's been over four years, so my math on exact bus times might be off a little. Plus she was going down to almost Central. Point being, even with taking the commuter bus she would essentially be gone from the house for almost 11-12 hours to work an 8 hour job.
what made us look elsewhere, after initially considering buying a house out there, is the Jet Noise Factor from Luke AFB
Some people love it, others hate it, but you MUST think about that before buying out in that area, and, understand that your realtor might make you sign a form saying that you understand the noise, and other dangers of buying a house near the AFB
We live 20 miles north east of the Base, and when those planes are out for their frequent practice fights, there is NO DOUBT about how loud it can be..
Take a look at the runway on Google Maps. Now change it to satellite image. Notice how there are no homes in the higher SPL areas (all around the immediate runway). On this map, it shows the flight patterns https://www.luke.af.mil/Portals/58/D...-07-112737-967 Therefore, proximity is one thing. But some spots will get a lot more noise AND are closer to many more flights.
I've been poking around looking in all kinds of areas. I'm betting I'll be moving in a year(ish). I'm taking my time and studying all kinds of areas including 55+, North Scottsdale and charming areas like the Willo district, etc. Nothing is off the table. As you pointed out, Luke should be examined by potential buyers. For those who leave the area or work inside all day M-F, it's really not much of a factor. They don't fly much on evenings and never on weekends. But people like us who live in our hood every single day need to make sure they are o.k. with those flight patterns and the sound pressure levels.
Because of it, I removed Litchfield Park as a whole. I've also removed Pebble Creek and much of Goodyear north of the 10. The question is what does it sound like in Verrado (Victory) or Trilogy in Vistancia which are two amazing master planned communities to my eye. Based off of my uneducated flight pattern link, I suspect I'm o.k. You cannot count on your neighbors opinion. You have to experience it 1st hand. Because you might be talking to a person who drives out of the hood from 6AM to 6PM M-F. Or someone who literally likes looking at the jet overhead; they think it is cool. I don't prefer it.
I know a retired colonel (ex commander) at Luke and we are friends. I need to ask him some questions the next time we get together about those patterns. He still knows people who can streamline my decision and take the guess work out of it.
Based off of the odd cold weather, it factually gets louder. There was a record 1000 flights in January and that is the new norm. We have noticed it this month even more. Certainly because of the much cold weather (the difference in temperature between the exhaust heat and the cold air creates more noise and the cold causes more refraction). So normally, you don't hear the planes high over head. But this month, you hear them when you pay attention to the noise. And currently, I am intentionally paying attention to it in order to quantify and compare it to other West Valley hoods.
Signed,
Cliff Clavin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Native
Luke AFB is a vital source of the U.S. military, and it's essential to the west Valley's economy. People who make the CHOICE to live within close proximity of the base have no business complaining about the jet noise. Luke was in existence long before the sprawling development was built around it, so those whose sensitive little ears are bothered by the noise should simply shut up and move elsewhere!
I know NIMBY types one of your pet peeves. The damn landscapers with their blowers (each neighbor has a different landscaping day) bother me 10X more than Luke. But hey, "the landscapers were here 1st". lol
Last edited by MN-Born-n-Raised; 02-22-2019 at 06:53 AM..
The Southwest Valley is mainly a mix of middle class housing, industrial facilities (many light industry), massive amounts of agricultural land and chain stores. This part of the Valley is definitely the lowest-income in the entire Valley. Cities like Tolleson and parts of Avondale, as well as some adjacent neighborhoods in SW Phoenix can be a bit iffy in terms of safety and general quality of life, but most of the area is definitely safe and livable.
The SW Valley is cheaper because of the distance from white collar job centers, in addition to being the most undeveloped part of the Valley. While much of the current boundary of the Phoenix area was agricultural land 100 years ago, all areas of the Valley have pretty much transformed into suburban schlock over the years, with the exception of SW Valley. There are tract developments and big box stores that are still surrounded by tons of farm land. This side of the Phoenix area is the fastest growing area, so it is definitely transitioning into more of a traditional suburban landscape from a rural agricultural landscape.
The commute to Phoenix/Tempe is the worst in the Valley. The 10 is currently the only freeway that carries SW Valley traffic to downtown/midtown Phoenix and the east Valley. There is proposed alternate freeway (SR 30/Tres Rios) that will be constructed in the 20s, which will serve as a parallel route to the 10. However, that freeway is really still in the beginning planning stages. The current commute features consistent weekday slowing for about a 10 mile stretch into downtown. The commute is by no means awful, but by Phoenix standards, it is definitely the worst. Conversely, during off peak hours, depending on how close you settle to the freeway, you can be downtown in a flash.
The SW Valley is the most non-white area of the Valley. As such, some people tend to automatically characterize the area as undesirable. Most everyone here is just as hardworking, law abiding and honest as any other section of the Valley. There are homes here that rival those found in the nicest neighborhoods of north Scottsdale and Gilbert that can be purchased for a much better value due to the location. Depending on what kind of activities you require for entertainment, you could find yourself routinely driving miles to other parts of the Valley. However, like I mentioned, this is an extremely fast growing area, with new amenities popping up almost weekly.
Reasons you'd want to consider living on the SW side: more house for your money compared to other quadrants of the Valley, much less traffic than other areas (though it seems to be increasing by the week), a nice mix of suburban and rural areas, unique mountain views of the Estrella range and the White Tanks, easier to drive from home to Southern California, Rocky Point (Mexican beach town), Las Vegas, and other points west, and more diversity.
Reasons you might want to consider other areas of the Valley: Weekday traffic to/from Phoenix and Tempe, far from trendier stores (Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, popular local dining concepts), higher crime rate in a FEW, very concentrated areas, far from many white collar job centers, occasional agricultural "odors" depending on where you live, industrial development (again, depending on where you live).
A few points to clarify (other than that, we agree).
* The commute to Phoenix/Tempe is NOT the worst in the Valley. There are severally that are equally terribly. I certainly would not sign up for it unless I had someone to commute with and get in the HOV lane.
* There are plenty of pockets in Phoenix proper as well as Mesa that have high crime, low income areas.
* Litchfield Park, Goodyear, and Buckeye comprise a mere 600 square miles of area in the southwest burbs. It's "white central". Goodyear and Litchfield park (200 square miles) have some of the highest average incomes in the Phoenix metro. They are "beer and brats" kind of people. Many of which value money in the bank and value versus living on the edge and being leveraged. But certainly there is less $$'s as a whole.
* A key reason that it is cheaper is the cost of dirt. Until an area fills up, expect appreciation to be low. Since there is a plethora of farmland, expect new build competition for decades to come. Sure, not being close to more technical and white collar jobs has it's influence as well. Being a newer area is a big part of that reason. If it is closer in (Maryvale) and no more dirt AND cheaper, that's when the crime and demographics kicks in. As we both agree, there is always a reason why is costs less.
To the op: Going to Tempe M-F would be painful. People certainly do it. But if you have the $$'s, live closer in. You will be giving up an extra hour a day on the road if you are out in Goodyear. Figure you are home from 6PM to 10PM, do you want to give up an hour a day (going to bed early by 1/2 an hour and getting home a half an hour later)? That's 20+percent reduction in family time M-F and an increase of expense (gas and wear and tear). That's the way you need to look at it. Never mind not being on the road as long increases your quality of life. I'm an advocate of the West Valley. But only if you work nearby and understand what you might be giving up (the trade-offs).
Good luck with your pending search! if you give us some more of what you are looking for (budget, home size, style, what you like to do with your time off, the industry that you are in etc), you can prevent yourself from wasting your time. I've been looking for a different spot to move and have 20 full days into it. And it's not remotely enough to get it right. So needless to say without more info, you will be spinning your wheels in 5 short days.
Last edited by MN-Born-n-Raised; 02-22-2019 at 06:52 AM..
We went to the Wildlife World Zoo ONCE. Those animals are treated like crap. When we went a few years ago, they built a new bear exhibit. It was "enjoying" life on a partially completed cage with brown dirt underneath. Bears live in forests and mountains. Not on brown dirt and 110 degree days.
Listen, I don't buy free range chickens and I haven't hugged a tree in my life. But that place is disgusting for the animals.
We're of the same mindset re:tree hugging. My least fave memory is of a beautiful cat curled up in a wood box on a chilly morning. The box looked as if it were going to collapse at any moment. Though now that you mention it, I recall the new bear exhibit as well-a desert island in a desert. And the Mountain lions doing stereotypic pacing. The Zoo business model is kind of a disaster, maybe with an exception for those with giant acreage.
Take a look at the runway on Google Maps. Now change it to satellite image. Notice how there are no homes in the higher SPL areas (all around the immediate runway). On this map, it shows the flight patterns https://www.luke.af.mil/Portals/58/D...-07-112737-967 Therefore, proximity is one thing. But some spots will get a lot more noise AND are closer to many more flights.
I've been poking around looking in all kinds of areas. I'm betting I'll be moving in a year(ish). I'm taking my time and studying all kinds of areas including 55+, North Scottsdale and charming areas like the Willo district, etc. Nothing is off the table. As you pointed out, Luke should be examined by potential buyers. For those who leave the area or work inside all day M-F, it's really not much of a factor. They don't fly much on evenings and never on weekends. But people like us who live in our hood every single day need to make sure they are o.k. with those flight patterns and the sound pressure levels.
Because of it, I removed Litchfield Park as a whole. I've also removed Pebble Creek and much of Goodyear north of the 10. The question is what does it sound like in Verrado (Victory) or Trilogy in Vistancia which are two amazing master planned communities to my eye. Based off of my uneducated flight pattern link, I suspect I'm o.k. You cannot count on your neighbors opinion. You have to experience it 1st hand. Because you might be talking to a person who drives out of the hood from 6AM to 6PM M-F. Or someone who literally likes looking at the jet overhead; they think it is cool. I don't prefer it.
I know a retired colonel (ex commander) at Luke and we are friends. I need to ask him some questions the next time we get together about those patterns. He still knows people who can streamline my decision and take the guess work out of it.
Based off of the odd cold weather, it factually gets louder. There was a record 1000 flights in January and that is the new norm. We have noticed it this month even more. Certainly because of the much cold weather (the difference in temperature between the exhaust heat and the cold air creates more noise and the cold causes more refraction). So normally, you don't hear the planes high over head. But this month, you hear them when you pay attention to the noise. And currently, I am intentionally paying attention to it in order to quantify and compare it to other West Valley hoods.
Signed,
Cliff Clavin
I know NIMBY types one of your pet peeves. The damn landscapers with their blowers (each neighbor has a different landscaping day) bother me 10X more than Luke. But hey, "the landscapers were here 1st". lol
Did you decide the delightful state of CA is off the table for you? I'm curious.
Did you decide the delightful state of CA is off the table for you? I'm curious.
Not necessary. It has to do with logistics and the kids. Our son is in medical school in Boston. Our daughter is up in Washington as a dentist. Our son is seriously dating a classmate from CA and she is a keeper. I can already here the draw from him (he is looking at CA residencies). And our daughter has a couple more years to go in her contract in WA. Until then, I am going to do what we want. Round one (over the next year) is to study this fine state. Both kids will have the resources to be where they want to be. Both are targeting CA. A lot of words to say we really are not sure when the end game is. Also, we have build some nice friendships here. So our heads are spinning with hundreds of possibilities. If we sell our MN home, that would loosen up a lot of $$'s to consider CA. But without doing that, I just don't feel all that comfortable pulling out a lot of savings which would be the case if we decided on CA. If the kids roots were planted in CA, I would over pay for a house and taxes. Knowing that is the reason why I entertained the idea. AND I could easily consider going down to one one. It's a 1st world problem.
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lol
