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Old 04-23-2008, 03:06 AM
 
Location: Outside Atlanta, GA
257 posts, read 566,403 times
Reputation: 140

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
One thing that self described 'Liberals' have to keep in mind is that many things that were 'extreme Left Wing' by 1950's standards are not only mainstream but have been embraced by many Conservatives.

Interracial dating/marriage
Zero tolerance towards drinking and driving (together)
Acceptance of Gays

One catches my drift.
I would have to disagree with the acceptance of gays part.

I agree with what everyone so far has said. Tempe, Central Phoenix, South Scottsdale, downtown. All are pretty liberal.
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Old 04-23-2008, 09:15 PM
 
190 posts, read 376,492 times
Reputation: 57
The Republicans or conservatives in Phoenix are not like those found in the southern and rural states. They vote Republican mostly to save money on taxes. They are not the Bible thumping/gay bashing/anti-stem cell conservatives found elsewhere. I was suprised to learn that Phoenix was Republican because it always felt liberal to me and now I understand why. So for all intents and purposes, the Phoenix area is "liberal" and most liberals don't have issues with the politics in Arizona. We certainly have conservative groups like Mormons but even among Mormons, there is quite a bit of disagreement regarding politics and social aspects. I feel that most liberals don't have issues with Mormons because the majority of them are well educated and graceful despite their conservative views.

These Republicans are more or less liberal but are labeled "moderate." Even John McCain fits this description. For example, Arizona voted against an anti-same sex law; it was one of the first in the country to do this. The only conservative aspect that Arizona shares in common with other Republican states is its stance against illegal immigration. However, I don't think this is out of racism as much as the negative economic effect it has on our economy. In other states, particularly those that don't border Mexicor or really have a high illegal immigrant population, the anti-immigration discussion is based on racism in some part. In Arizona, we see these effects first hand and many Hispanic U.S. citizens are opposed to the illegla immigration.

I think Arizona is much more liberal than some of the surrounding mountain states like Wyoming and Colorado which are much more Cowboy/Good ole Boy like in nature. Phoenix has a bunch of Scottsdale Republicans aka Californians who vote Republican to reduce taxes
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Old 04-23-2008, 09:30 PM
 
4,248 posts, read 6,628,695 times
Reputation: 1391
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
One thing that self described 'Liberals' have to keep in mind is that many things that were 'extreme Left Wing' by 1950's standards are not only mainstream but have been embraced by many Conservatives.

Interracial dating/marriage
Zero tolerance towards drinking and driving (together)
Acceptance of Gays

One catches my drift.
This is very true, in fact today's "Neocons" (i.e. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle) are actually offspring of the far left, the Trotskyites, to be precise.

This is what most people do not realize. And, having said this and as an FYI, there is absolutely NOTHING conservative about the current administration.
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Old 04-23-2008, 09:58 PM
 
4,248 posts, read 6,628,695 times
Reputation: 1391
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan View Post
I think Arizona is much more liberal than some of the surrounding mountain states like Wyoming and Colorado which are much more Cowboy/Good ole Boy like in nature. Phoenix has a bunch of Scottsdale Republicans aka Californians who vote Republican to reduce taxes
Well, this isn't saying much. I mean, compare AZ to the worst of the worst and one could arrive at the same conclusion. And I do live in Scottsdale and come from California, and there is NO way I embrace (the current) republican stuff. If one is a true liberal, taxes do take a back seat to what is right.

And I spell republican with a lowercase "r" for a reason.
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Old 04-23-2008, 10:53 PM
 
4,248 posts, read 6,628,695 times
Reputation: 1391
Quote:
Originally Posted by OctoberMoon View Post
I would have to disagree with the acceptance of gays part.

I agree with what everyone so far has said. Tempe, Central Phoenix, South Scottsdale, downtown. All are pretty liberal.
By what standards?
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Old 04-25-2008, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Bloomington
92 posts, read 206,349 times
Reputation: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan View Post

"So for all intents and purposes, the Phoenix area is "liberal" and most liberals don't have issues with the politics in Arizona."

These Republicans are more or less liberal but are labeled "moderate." Even John McCain fits this description. For example, Arizona voted against an anti-same sex law; it was one of the first in the country to do this.
Interesting points, azriverfan -- thanks for taking the time to share them. One thing that really dropped my jaw when I decided to move from IN (hotbed of fundamentalist conservatism) to teach in PHX was finding out about an AZ state statue that prohibits any positive depiction of gay lifestyles in public schools AND that you can't even mention or discuss AIDS, HIV, in health classes without presenting a negative viewpoint on gay lifestyles. This seems so bizarre and outdated. Do AZ lawmakers think you can get HIV from a mosquito bite, too? It's outrageous that the state would require schools to lead students to infer that our AIDS problem today is a result of gay lifestyles...but I suppose there are people who do think that...
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Old 04-25-2008, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,157 posts, read 26,339,212 times
Reputation: 3660
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan View Post
The Republicans or conservatives in Phoenix are not like those found in the southern and rural states. They vote Republican mostly to save money on taxes. They are not the Bible thumping/gay bashing/anti-stem cell conservatives found elsewhere. I was suprised to learn that Phoenix was Republican because it always felt liberal to me and now I understand why. So for all intents and purposes, the Phoenix area is "liberal" and most liberals don't have issues with the politics in Arizona. We certainly have conservative groups like Mormons but even among Mormons, there is quite a bit of disagreement regarding politics and social aspects. I feel that most liberals don't have issues with Mormons because the majority of them are well educated and graceful despite their conservative views.

These Republicans are more or less liberal but are labeled "moderate." Even John McCain fits this description. For example, Arizona voted against an anti-same sex law; it was one of the first in the country to do this. The only conservative aspect that Arizona shares in common with other Republican states is its stance against illegal immigration. However, I don't think this is out of racism as much as the negative economic effect it has on our economy. In other states, particularly those that don't border Mexicor or really have a high illegal immigrant population, the anti-immigration discussion is based on racism in some part. In Arizona, we see these effects first hand and many Hispanic U.S. citizens are opposed to the illegla immigration.

I think Arizona is much more liberal than some of the surrounding mountain states like Wyoming and Colorado which are much more Cowboy/Good ole Boy like in nature. Phoenix has a bunch of Scottsdale Republicans aka Californians who vote Republican to reduce taxes
The word 'Libertarian' describes Arizona...........

I too have noticed that so-called 'Bible thumpers' are rather thin on the ground here.
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Old 04-25-2008, 04:36 PM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
17,343 posts, read 20,506,887 times
Reputation: 9052
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogetsthesaurus View Post
Interesting points, azriverfan -- thanks for taking the time to share them. One thing that really dropped my jaw when I decided to move from IN (hotbed of fundamentalist conservatism) to teach in PHX was finding out about an AZ state statue that prohibits any positive depiction of gay lifestyles in public schools AND that you can't even mention or discuss AIDS, HIV, in health classes without presenting a negative viewpoint on gay lifestyles. This seems so bizarre and outdated. Do AZ lawmakers think you can get HIV from a mosquito bite, too? It's outrageous that the state would require schools to lead students to infer that our AIDS problem today is a result of gay lifestyles...but I suppose there are people who do think that...
Would you please provide the statute chapter, section number for that "law". I have never heard of such a thing and think you are mistaken. I was unable to return any hits searching for "gay", "lebian", "alternative lifestyles", or "HIV" on the azleg website.
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Old 04-25-2008, 06:29 PM
 
190 posts, read 376,492 times
Reputation: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by movin'on View Post
Well, this isn't saying much. I mean, compare AZ to the worst of the worst and one could arrive at the same conclusion. And I do live in Scottsdale and come from California, and there is NO way I embrace (the current) republican stuff. If one is a true liberal, taxes do take a back seat to what is right.

And I spell republican with a lowercase "r" for a reason.
Many would not equate Colorado and Wyoming with being the "worst of the worst." There are far more conservative states than them so it does mean something to say that Arizona is more liberal than those areas even if it is only slightly more liberal. Many people moving from the west coast are not expecting Arizona to be as liberal as their home but they are wondering how far it strays from the standard that they are used to. I don't think Arizona is drastically much more conservative than the west coast particularly in regards to social issues. Arizona detracts from the west coast liberalism mostly in regards to fiscal issues. And there is a difference between being a liberal and being liberal. Liberalism as a philosophy is not the same as being a member of the Democratic party. There are many Arizona residents who are socially liberal but fiscally conservative and vote Republican. Not all Republicans are the same and to assume they are because they are a member of the same party is shortsighted. When people are asking whether people are liberal, it's usually in reference to social liberalism ie their stance toward msame sex marriage, abortion etc. Maybe for you, there is a distinct line.

Last edited by azriverfan; 04-25-2008 at 07:29 PM..
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Old 04-25-2008, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,157 posts, read 26,339,212 times
Reputation: 3660
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan View Post
Many would not equate Colorado and Wyoming with being the "worst of the worst." There are far more conservative states than them so it does mean something to say that Arizona is more liberal than those areas even if it is only slightly more liberal. Many people moving from the west coast are not expecting Arizona to be as liberal as their home but they are wondering how far it strays from the standard that they are used to. I don't think Arizona is drastically much more conservative than the west coast particularly in regards to social issues. Arizona detracts from the west coast liberalism mostly in regards to fiscal issues. And there is a difference between being a liberal and being liberal. Liberalism as a philosophy is not the same as being a member of the Democratic party. There are any Arizona residents who are socially liberal but fiscally conservative and vote Republican. Not all Republicans are the same and to assume they are because they are a member of the same party is shortsighted. When people are asking whether people are liberal, it's usually in reference to social liberalism ie their stance toward same sex marriage, abortion etc.
Thank you------and, I am a Republican as well.
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